Quote:
Originally Posted by Forward To Death
The earliest bands were heavily influenced by jazz though, so I don't quite get that hardcore was somehow "simpler" from 1980-1984. What would you consider to be the first hardcore album? Most consider it Bad Brains' self-titled, which definitely has a jazz influence, and is certainly not the simplistic rock that you're saying generalizes most of the genre. Maybe Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables, which I guess is pretty rock influenced, but I never really considered them to be one of the jazzy hardcore bands anyways. Bad Brains, Black Flag, NoMeansNo, heck even the Suicidal Tendencies S/T is more intricate than what I'd consider "simplistic rock". That's 4 of the most influential early hardcore bands right there.
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Um, I don't think most people consider Bad Brains self-titled the first hardcore release.
Damaged, Hardcore '81, Group Sex, Adolescents, Reagan's In, and
Dance With Me had already been released by the time it came out. Most people I know interested in hardcore consider
Out of Vogue by Middle Class to be the first hardcore release. Legs McNeil and
American Hardcore state the same. Black Flag were branded sell outs in most of the hardcore scene by the mid-80s. Rollins has some pretty brutal stories about that and they didn't start getting that experimental until
My War in '84. It's extremely misleading to claim the First Four Years is heavily influenced by jazz. When people talk about Black Flag's jazz influence I pretty much see them referring to
The Process of Weeding Out or like
Family Man, not
Jealous AgainI and
Nervous Breakdown as you're implying. If you think the vast majority hardcore bands sound like NoMeansNo and not the Circle Jerks, alright then, you clearly know more than me. You probably have a better idea where it started but I've never seen Suicidal Tendencies credited as a hardcore punk without the label crossover thrash following. So I wouldn't use them to define hardcore punk personally.