Quote:
Originally Posted by Xurtio
Note the context of the altruism wiki. Kin selection is not altruism, but it is a proposed mechanism for altruism.
Gene propagation is not the human reason for altruism; that's the evolutionary reason. For example, sex yields children, but that's not why we do it; we do it because it feels good. If reproduction relied on some kind of intellectual acknowledgement of the fate of the species, we would probably be doomed. Instead, it relies on us having an urge to get off.
Altruistic urges aren't much different in that regard. It makes some people feel good to make sacrifices for others. The individual hasn't necessarily reached the conclusion that it will increase the odds of their genes propagating, they are just following compulsions that randomly developed through evolutionary pressures and happened to lead to the propagation of genes that tend to lead to such traits.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth
yes. i don't see the dilemma at all because your genes are not the ones being described as altruistic. you, the animal, are the one that is making a sacrifice. the genetic programming that compels you to make that sacrifice doesn't cancel that out.
|
Some great points made here
I get them too and I could just leave it at that. It could be a matter of perspective.
Still, the nitpick in me thinks true selflessness would have you gain nothing, not even an unconscious fitness reward. It exists f.ex when an "altruistic" optimal strategy fails to be optimal and becomes too nice to the point where it's actually self-destructive fitness-wise. Natural selection would work against it and adjust those genes accordingly. To put that in a more social perspective, I think a good society should create an environment that promotes selflessness and altruism (whether one thinks of it as a
real thing or not).
Somewhat related, I once read about green beard hypothesis (think it was green). The idea is that a gene gives a man a green beard (easily recognizable) and the gene also controls friendly behaviour towards others with green beards. The gene is selfish; it's promoting its own survival when it recognizes itself in other individuals. That could also be a way for "altruism" to exist, but again the underlying evolutionary mechanism is, of course, selfish.
I'm not sure if any "green beard"-genes have been identified, but I should look into that.