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Originally Posted by The Batlord
What is so terrible about Neelix? The scenes between him and Tuvoc were delightful.
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Dear God, where do I start? From his annoying Edwardian gentleman voice to his calling Tuvok "Mister Vulcan", the guy just totally got on my nerves. But if you want to hobble me by saying we can only talk about THIS episode, not how much he bugged me ever afterwards, then this: his original first act with his "new friends" was to trick them into helping him rescue his girlfriend, and THEN he wanted to **** off and leave them to their own devices. It was KES who convinced him to stay and help. He had no intention of doing so. What a little wanker.
And did we really have to see him naked in the very first friggin' episode?
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Nobody ever watched Voyager for its brilliant writing. They watch it cause it's another chance to see Star Trek-style sci-fi goodness.
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Now here i have to put my hoof down. This is/was not just any old series we are talking about here. This is Star Trek, part of a proud tradition which includes some stellar (pun intended) writing. The writing on ST was so good that when they wrote a duff one (given that most of the series struggled to find their feet in season one) it really stood out. If you decide to jump on that bandwagon you sure as hell better have your writing pants on!
This was a series that was to join the hallowed ranks of Next Generation, Deep Space 9 and the original Star Trek. Trekkers expected it to be well-written, which is why it was so slated. You don't get a pass for saying "oh it's just fun and everyone was just glad to see more Trek." Incorrect. Trekkers had Next Gen and Deep Space 9. Another series was welcome, sure, but they weren't so starved for Trek that they would accept any old ****e. This had to be good, and to my mind it did not measure up. In fact, you as much as agree with me by saying that good writing was not expected. What crap. Of course it was.
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Is the ease with which the Maquis and Federation get along dubious? Yes. But it's just a setup for the rest of the series, so who really gives a ****?
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Um. Me and who-knows-how-many other Trekkers. Again, a sense of reality is expected. On Babylon 5, races often did not get along and this created a sense of tension and drama. Christ, even in the original Trek there was one episode where, when we finally get our first glimpse of what a Romulan looks like, and they're seen to be cousins to Vulcans, Spock is under suspicion. These things happen. They're meant to happen and they should lead somewhere. The Maquis just giving up their ideals, there and then, and throwing in with their enemy is unrealistic. Maybe after some time they might have realised they had to live together and a temporary truce been arranged, but not on the first effing day! And with no repercussions?
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I will also point out that we are reviewing one episode at this point, and not an entire series, or even an entire season. So his points about how the series may or may not develop are irrelevant at this point and should be ignored.
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I agree and don't. As we've both seen the series our comments are put in context by what happened down the line. Otherwise I could say, for instance, "Who knows? Maybe Paris dies!" But we know he doesn't. So I have to sort of look ahead, and show you how certain situations developed and to my mind proved me correct. I do take your point though, and will try to confine my comments to the episode in hand and any previous ones as we go on, though I can't guarantee I won't reference a future one IF it seems relevant to my argument at the time.
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I would also like to say that, while it has been years since I have an episode of Voyager, I do remember there being tension with at least part of the Maquis. How this played out I really don't remember
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Where? I could be wrong, but from what I recall the only real incident came in "Worst case scenario", which turned out to be a plot for a holo-novel!
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, but I question whether my colleague even knows what he's talking about, since it sounds like it's been a long while since my vaguely-esteemed colleague has even seen an episode of Voyager, so it seems unfair for him to be referencing views that may have been colored with the passing of years.
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That is your opinion. You don't know how long it is since I saw "Voyager", and anyway, how long since you saw it? Nevertheless, I have watched the entire series at least four times from beginning to end, so I think I do know what I'm wittering on about thank you so very much.
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But aside from Trollheart's pithy whining about the Maquis, I was surprisingly entertained by this episode. The buildup before Voyager was dropped into the Delta quadrant wasn't anything particularly special, but the array being populated by holographic hillbillies
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A typical event that could have taken place in Next Gen on the holodeck. Clever in its way but I feel a little derivative, since NG had done this kind of thing so much already. Not to mention DS9's first episode had the Prophets doing something similar as they walked around in Sisko's mind.
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This wasn't the most brilliant episode of Star Trek ever by any means, but it was still a fair amount of fun, and Trollheart seems to be going out of his way to rob himself of that fun.
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Not at all. I did enjoy Voyager first time round but remember it was running in tandem with DS9, so I was always going to compare it to that show, and of course NexGen and even TOS. I have to be honest, I don't watch any Star Trek series JUST for fun. Comedy shows are there for that. I watch to be entertained certainly, but also to be surprised, angered, shocked, saddened and most of all moved. While obviously not every ep of NG or DS9 did that, I can say that many more episodes from each series did than happened with Voyager. I guess it was "Star Trek-lite" in a way. But I personally don't hate it, I just don't think it came anywhere close to carrying on the legacy we (at least, I) had grown up on for over forty-five years.
I'll have plenty of good things to say about the show, but when it sucked it sucked a big one, and it sucked more often that not. That's my main contention and the end of this current submission. Thank you for your time.
Any biscuits around here?