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Originally Posted by franscar
Ah right, now we get to the crux of it. I can quite happily deny that life begins at the moment of conception. I can do this safe in the knowledge that the medical profession agrees with me entirely. You want to hurl forth a ton of christian rhetoric to "prove me wrong" then you go right ahead. But I promise you, relying on an institution that only in the 1980's denied that the sun revolved around the earth is going to get you precisely nowhere.
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em, right off the bat you're wrong, my opinions on why abortion is wrong ARE based on christianity, but not my opinion on when life begins, that's what i concluded for myself...logically. it's quite stupid and ignorant to think life doesn't begin at the moment of conception ( or rather after the process of conception is finished ). does life begin when the child is born? so in the 8th month the child is not alive? or does it begin in the 3rd month? what exactly is the point when YOU think life begins? ( and i'm not reffering to whether or not you think it's an actual person, that point is debatable ). there's a reason why it's called an abortion, because it stops the development of something, if something is developing and growing, it is life, granted it's not a human being yet, but it has the potential of becoming one, unless it's development is stopped.
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Originally Posted by franscar
You want to put the hypothetical life of a hypothetical child ahead of the ACTUAL lives of ACTUAL people. Don't do that. You're creating a hypothetical life and that cheapens the entire concept. For someone who claims that life is a gift, you seem to be incredibly blasé about inventing lives for non-existent other people. My "child" never existed. A foetus was present in my ex-girlfriends' womb. A collection of cells. It had no needs. It had no life. It was nothing more than an extension of her body, and as a result of that, SHE has the final say on what happens to it. Not me. Not you. Not "god". My girlfriend was on the pill. She did not forget to take it. She got pregnant anyway. It happens in the real world. We did "own" that, as you so eloquently put it, we dealt with it quickly and safely. She went to a doctor, to a hospital, and she was treated by professionals. We do things your way and you will end up with thousands of girls shoving coat hangers into their uterus'. That's what happened in the past, you really want to go back to that?
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may i draw your attention to the part where i say that women should definetly have the right to choose, abortion shouldn't be illegal for the single reason that women would still do it.
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Originally Posted by franscar
Yes, we chose to terminate the pregnancy, because we were incapable of looking after a child. Do you really think every woman in the same situation HAS TO carry an unwanted child for nine months, give birth to it in the most painful state that a human being can experience, and then GIVE IT AWAY? Are you really that devoid of compassion? Is your head so far up its own moral superiority to understand the emotions that real people in real situations go through?
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i realize that it's not an easy decision, but i ask you, if you're so bent on proving that it's not life or a prospecting person you decided to terminate, why is it so difficult? if it's just an extention of her body, inanimate ,not living, why is it so psychologically difficult? why isn't it as easy as cutting off your hair?
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Originally Posted by franscar
What gives you the right to pick and choose what you deem a worthy reason for an abortion? What the hell allows you the arrogance to assume you are capable of dictating to another human being what they are allowed to do with their own bodies? What gives you that right?
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nothing, i'm not dictating what anyone should do. i'm merely saying that i think it's wrong and i'm trying to explain to you and others why i think it's wrong. like i said before, i am pro life, but i am also pro choice. if you want to do it, you should be able to do it.
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Originally Posted by franscar
When I choose to become a parent, it will be because I and my partner have made a conscious decision that we are capable of giving our child the best possible life. How can you possibly think that the births of thousands of unwanted children every year can be a good thing?
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i don't think it's a good thing, i think it's a bad thing, but i think such things should be prevented in ways other than abortion.safe sex or no sex. i repeat, if you're going to have sex, you need to be aware of the possible consequences. having sex , being aware of that and then just deciding to have an abortion is simply reckless behaviour as far as i'm concerned.
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Originally Posted by franscar
I fail to see the relevance of your story about the alcoholics. So your father is a ****, so what? What does that have to do with my life, my ex-girlfriends life and our decision to abort a foetus?
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i stated that example to explain that even though parents can be dic
kheads, the child can still have a good and happy life. you stated that it's better to terminate a pregnacy than to expose the child to the harsh realities of life. i say that noones life is perfect and even when you are well off and decide that you want to have a child and can take care of it, it can still be unhappy and have a miserable life. should we then just stop procreating? because the child may or may not be unhappy? ( actually, yes, that's one of the reasons why i'm not having a child )
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Originally Posted by franscar
All that little story proves is that you have absolutely no basis for your dictatorial views on other peoples lives, and the ONLY reason you have for sticking your nose into other peoples business is the pathetic, baseless rantings of a religion that for every "life" it aims to save in the western world, it is quite happy to condemn to a slow, painful, hideous death from AIDS in Africa.
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you can keep chategorizing me as a biggot christion all you want, that's not what i am. i disagree with many things the catholic church is saying, aids and the use of condoms is one of them.
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Originally Posted by franscar
Before you decide to be pro-life, pull your head out of the clouds and think about what life actually means. Then ask yourself who's being selfish, the person who thinks logically about the future, or the person who decides what's right and what's wrong for everyone else, out of some desperate hope that it will save him from eternal damnation.
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you keep trying to turn me into some ranting radical christian that protests outside of abortion clinics. i'm not trying to impose my views on anybody, this is a simple debate, i am merely stating my opinions, if you disagree with them , that's just fine by me, i'm not going to think you're going to hell because you had an abortion or declare you the enemy of mankind and devil encarnate. everyone has the right to decide for themselves, but we also have a right to state our opinions and to have different opnions on this subject. you are obviously too personally involved in the subject to argue your case without resorting to personal attacks.....take a chill pill and relax....