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Originally Posted by Frownland
Yes, because you're misrepresenting my argument and proving facts against this nonexistent argument that you think I'm making and believing that you're proving what I'm saying wrong. You did it by making the conversation about Kanye's being an assh ole and arguing that there is no innovation in the mainstream when that's nowhere near what I was addressing in my post. It's called a fallacy. Look into it (as well as the rest): Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
So I can't say Kanye is an *******? lol
Kissing Kanye's ass makes my argument objective to you? :/
I don't see what my opinion of him as a person has to do with my opinion of him as an artist if I am coming with receipts to prove my point.
The fact that I feel Kanye is an ******* is seperate from how I view him as an artist and as an artist Kanye has not innovated anything for the genre of rap music...period. All he does is sample and yes he does fuse different genres and elements but he is not the first to do this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frownland
How about you focus on what I'm actually saying instead of picking and choosing little things to criticize with your cute little "facts". I was talking about whether people would consider him a legend, not whether I would, not whether people like him, and not whether I like him. Cut that fallacy bull**** out, it's quite exhausting.
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Facts matter in this discussion because it makes arguments stronger and I am stating them to make points.
I was not referring to you, I am referring to people and the average music listener, now what are you talking about?
If you don't make legendary music or have contributed anything new to the genre how can people consider you a legend?
Your exhausting yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frownland
By your definition he is not an innovator because he hadn't created something completely different. Music videos had already been an industry before he entered it and everyone who ever made a music video failed to make a single change in the music video world. There is no way that anybody after the first person to create a music video can be called a legend by your criteria.
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Thats not based on my criteria.
That poster implied The Chronic created Gangsta Rap and it did not period.
Michael Jackson innovated music videos by making it into an art form. His
contributions were NEW and innovative. Not only was it innovative, it was groundbreaking and it changed the formula of music videos as a whole. It changed it into something completely new.
The Chronic did not change Gangsta Rap. It helped popularize it.
Thats the
difference
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frownland
Several hundreds of artists played shows on large scales before Michael Jackson with lots of flair, therefore he's a big copycat on those shows and cannot be considered an innovator in any way.
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Did other acts have theatrical elements in their concerts such as fire works, big projections, flying projectors into the audience among other things in their shows BEFORE Michael Jackson?
NO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frownland
Now the above is basically what your standards look like when they're taken apart and applied to Michael Jackson instead of modern music/hip hop. It's clearly fucking ridiculous because Jackson did innovate in those fields, those are some of the things that helped him become a legend, but when you set these impossibly high standards against him he could never enter into that status. Do you understand why people would think that your argument is ludicrous when it's applied to music that you clearly know nothing about and that they listen to and enjoy? I don't like Michael Jackson but looking at it from an objective perspective I would agree that he is a legend. It might better your musical perspective to attempt to do the same and at least consider that other people besides for the greatest music mind that is Soulflower might consider that person a legend, therefore making them a legend in their given field. This is why I would say that Kanye's a legend, even if I don't like his music, but simply because of his status among so many people as one of the greatest. He has innovated in those fields by bringing certain things within his music to the public eye that wasn't necessarily there before. But go ahead and ignore this, I know you're quite a fan of that.
I wonder which cherries you'll pick this round! I look forward to it.
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I think your argument as well as your nastiness and disrespectful conjectures is rooted in the fact that you hate me and you hate Michael Jackson and thats fine.
I won't lose any sleep! lol
However, Its almost as if your hate blinds you in which you see and misinterpret things that are not even there in our debates.
However, if you spew inaccurate facts about MJ, make sure you come correct because I will check you with the receipts.
This post is full of contradictions and inaccuracies. When you want to slam dunk an argument make sure you research next time before you do it.
Its like you work overload to prove you hate me and you hate Michael Jackson in all your posts and you end up stressing your own self out LOL
We GET IT you hate me and you hate Michael Jackson. Now that you have gotten that out the way, work on maturely constructing an intelligent un-bias response related to the music without taking everything so personal. Lighten up.