Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Probably know much more than you think being as how Salt Lake has a HUGE hardcore scene and my friend's step dad has a post punk and new wave radio show he runs. He and my friend's mom were doing this **** before you were born back when it was an actual thing prior to it becoming the consumer brand filled with cliche cringe hot topic imagery. They know the goth club owners out here. My friend grew up with it.

I'm still not speaking out of line for calling it a consumer brand in light of you trying to emulate what it was prior to the cliches. I don't need to know about it to know this.

Just as you probably don't know **** about juggalos or horrorcore culture as a whole and nobody is going to argue if you say that it's also a consumer brand.

Edit: Then again, I don't like pretentiously surrounding myself in a cultural echo chamber or bubble, I like being introduced to new ideas, or styles or arts especially when it comes to music.