jwb

But I mean in terms of the broader trend there is no telling what direction the larger middle east would take without intervention. For example in Egypt the pan-Arab secular regime of Nasser overthrew the colonial govt with the help of the Muslim brotherhood... And later that same secular pan Arab regime became estranged with the MB as their views diverged.

Eventually the MB were intent on overthrowing the secular regime and were considered a terrorist group by the state. This was long before any ties to the US.

This is just to say that religious conservatives will reject modernity whether it's imposed imperially or manifests organically. The imperialism just magnifies the effect. So I agree we probably made things worse by all accounts... I just don't agree with if America didn't intervene they'd be on a streamlined path to secularism.

The diminishing of religion in our own society was a long a bloody ordeal and I don't know why we would expect differently from theirs. And above all else I just get the sense that the common trope of America is to blame for everything is to simplistic and robs the rest of the world of their agency.