Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollheart
Brits never thought of themselves as Europeans, mostly I guess because they aren't on the continent of Europe, but in reality because most English people (not saying Scottish or Welsh, but English) regard Europeans as "foreigners". Given their long history of picking a fight with any country they could, that's not very surprising. England has long believed itself superior to all of Europe (the phrase "filthy foreigners" was bandied about a lot in the 70s and 80s) and has at one time or another been at war, or in opposition to France, Germany, Holland (Netherlands duh), Spain, Portugal, Italy and probably a whole lot more besides. And Ireland of course. And Scotland. And Wales.
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Yes, you are right in every detail I'm afraid, Trollheart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guybrush
Nevermind that England was populated by Germans, French people, scandinavians of various sorts and live in a country littered with roman ruins. So much for not being a part of Europe.
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This is also true, Guybrush. Good point.
I'm reluctant to argue against Marie and Guybrush, but perhaps you're both overlooking an innocent semantic fact about "Europe": it's a word we all use, but its definition isn't precise. In fact, surely our meaning of Europe shifts around depending on whether we are talking about races&tribes, physical geography, culture, NATO, the EU or the Eurovision Song Contest. Each Europe is largely the same, but a little bit different, especially round the edges. But, yeah, by almost every parameter, England is part of Europe.
But I said "innocent semantic fact" because I had in mind the way adults and children in the UK casually refer to Europe as being somewhere that isn't Britain: "I went to Europe on holiday." "My dad is working in Europe". I suppose it would be more accurate to say "Continental Europe" or "the Continent" (which was once a common term, but less so today, I suspect.)
But it's not always chauvanistic or silly; the idea that Great Britain and Europe are distinct is reinforced by the fact that (pre Channel Tunnel) the only way to get from one to the other was by boat or airplane.
I'd be very interested to know what they say in Norway if they want to refer quickly to the bits of Europe south of Scandanavia: do you have a word for that?
I also wonder what happens in places like Madagascar: Do they discuss there whether they are part of Africa or not ?