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Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog
We don't understand the "basic tenants of capitalism?" I'd be more inclined to believe you but I said that exact phrase in this thread a couple pages earlier. I don't think you understand the basic principles of capitalism. There are reasons governments exist and regardless of what your L. Ron Hubbard overlords have told you, its not a power grab.
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Ok, I'm not sure where you're coming from at all with this. How would you be more inclined to believe me if you hadn't said the same thing early. I was merely skimming this thread until I saw the Universal Health Care comment and then started to read intently. I probably shouldn't gone back through the thread but I didn't.
And who is saying governments are a power grab? I understand there are valid reasons for them, I just don't believe that the regulation of services (not goods) should be one of them.
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Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog
Standardized pricing takes place everywhere. Try and buy an ipod. Its going to be the same price everywhere. And there will not be some renegade company selling it for less because Apple won't sell you it. Even if they did, you'd be crushed by the bigger stores with more locations and the ability to process more consumers. And in your free market unregulated world, there'd be no federal government or anti-monopoly laws in place to stop them.
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Of course there won't be a renegade company. Apple OWNS iPod, so no one but them can sell it as their own product. Naturally, Apple sets the prices. However with competing products (such as the major video game consoles) prices and service have both improved immensely due to competition. Sony believe the PS3 was worth $600 and the market did not agree, hence the PS3's abysmal first year. Microsoft decided to capture more of the market they would need to deal with hardware problems and so to make the product more desirable, they added the retroactive warrantly on all 360's.
These are examples of companies adjusting to the needs and wants of the market. The market decideds how much something is worth, NOT the company. Going back to UHC, different hospitals all want to make money by selling a similar service (medicine, operations, check-ups, etc.). The moment one hospital realizes it can draw patients by lowering their prices for these things, the consumer begins to win. The market doesn't provide for people paying 10,000 for an operation. And buisnesses will adjust.
I'd also like to respond to your point on monopolies springing up. This is a place for the government to step in. I never said that they shouldn't. Similar to the dissolution of giants like Bell (the telephone company) and Standard Oil were great steps in insuring the continuation of the free market system. I'm all for anti-trust acts. I'm not for government regulation of an industry. Huge difference.
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Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog
Businesses do not run, nor care about societies and governments, which operate in many cases as a giant consumer advocate anyway, have to keep the will of the public in mind. Capitalism is a dynamic system that corresponds well to democracy, its voting with your wallet. But if you don't like the laws you can always change the law makers.
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I really don't follow this paragraph.
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Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog
As for your comment on philanthropy, what are you ****ing 12? Or is your head just up your ass. That was the dumbest ****ing thing I've ever read. Most capitalists want unregulated everything so your philanthropic doctors wouldn't need licenses and if you're going to allow doctors to practice in your country without any sort of oversight, then I pray you get sick first and we'll see how strong your resolve is then you poverty stricken naive invalid.
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How will they not need licenses? As far as I'm concerned, I'm not saying change much about the current system. If anything I'm simply saying we should have more control over what doctor's we see and that we become much more financially responsible over our own treatement.
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Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger
I wish I lived in this middle class utopia that some people here seem to want.
Just think a whole society of people in middle management jobs where nobody has any financial problems during their entire lives at all ,ever.
I fear there are a few people in for a nasty shock once they get into the real world.
Whatever next ? Poor people wanting to be able to go to a doctors? ... damn communists.
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You're right. I grew up in an upper middle class family. I attend a prestigious public university. I've never had a need in my life (although plenty of wants). But that does not mean I can't express my opinion on this topic.
If we go to a UHC system where does the money to pay for the poor going to the doctor come from? ME! As heartless as it sounds, I want my money to be spent on ME or on things that I want to spend it on. I went to school, I studied, I worked, I made money. I'll be damned if my compensation goes to anyone else (minus the obligitory taxes I pay for roads, schools, etc.)
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Originally Posted by DontRunMeOver
1) Medics have, due to 'old school ties', access to a more organised network of other practising medics and are generally in a position to take part in a kind of informal price-fixing (quite simply, if no medics lower their prices then everybody can continue to charge high prices for the services).
2) In most places there are a lack of medics compared to the demand, so medics don't need to cut their prices to get customers.
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I'd like to zero in on this part of your post, because a lot of it is talking about location specific issues.
1. You're assuming that doctors have a devious plan to price gouge at the first oppurtunity. Lawyer's have a job with near the same prestige, and roughly in the same demand. Largely unregulated system, but it still works because entry level practicioners charge reasonable fee's so they can a) get cases as an unknown and b) make a name for themselves. Doctors would be much the same way. A sought after commodity.
2. No one lives in a vaccum. Travel is too easy these days to let that be an excuse.
again, this system actually taps into greed. Doctors who want money, will be willing to do a little bit more work. If not, they won't make money.