Thread: A Riddle
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:14 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: detroit
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Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
So it wasn't really a riddle at all then (I mean it is, sort of, but it's meaning is not concrete at all, but merely a path to a rhetorical question with no conclusive answer).
Yes, it was a riddle.
If it wasn't paradoxical then it would have been strictly rhetorical, but the fact that it is self-conflicting provides an answer to the question "What is truth?" (maybe not the most concrete riddle).

Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
Secondly, I am not sure these are aphorisms. They aren't true aphorisms anyway.
An aphorism by definition is a saying that expresses a general truth or an astute observation.
The hand it shakes when ready
To write old words anew

What exactly is a truth that one could glean from this couplet? There is no general truth in this line. It's not quite an aphorism then, is it?
It is a perfect aphorism.
I respect the fact that you're trying to shut me down, but if you've read any of Francis Bacon's work then you'd see he does the same thing.
Obviously the first two lines of my poem aren't a recognized truth, they're my "astute observation"/personal experience.

Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
If my hand is always steady
Then are any of my thoughts untrue?

There is no observation, or general truth here. Whether the question is rhetorical or not -- it loses any chance of being an aphorism due to the fact that it is purely based on rhetorical, fantastical, situational, biological reaction.
This is not an aphorism, as I mentioned earlier.
This half of the poem is meant to conflict with the first half, to create a paradox.
It's a little hazy, but I meant for the paradox of the aphorism to parallel the paradox of truth being untruth.
The second aphorism would be the entire poem as a whole.
It would be my paradoxical observation that the question "What is truth?" answers "Truth is a lie."
I suppose the aphorism isn't really there because it's not a saying, it's just implied.
Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
You put forth the implied fact that a hand shaking is the hand of a liar. Then you instituted the fact that your hand never shakes, making you forever honest by the standards you put forth. The answer to the question of this "riddle" is - no, your thoughts are never untrue. If we go by the rules governing the piece.
True, but that is not the answer to the question of the riddle, it goes a step further.
Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
The piece DOES have an answer. It is NOT a simple riddle. It is a riddle, whether you wanted it to be or not. The piece is, itself, a lie, without regard to it's content but to its intent.
The answer/intent of the riddle is essentially a lie.
I was playing with the fact that truth is whatever our reality reveals to us and perhaps that reality is not truly truth at all.

Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
I could go on... I'm pretty well versed in philosophy (the continued talk about paradoxical connotations between aphorisms is almost wholly incorrect, but I'm too tired to blab on about that)
There is no paradox between the individual aphorisms (if you can say that there are two), that would be incorrect, but I answered that earlier.

Thank you for responding again.
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