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Originally Posted by Wayfarer
Covering a song and taking credit for writing it, however, is plagiarism, regardless of how different from the original it may sound.
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Then attack them personally. Don't use this to
justify calling them bad musicians or calling their music bad and insulting people who enjoy their music.
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And what's with this "oh, it's just the lyrics" shite? Plagiarizing lyrics is still plagiarizing.
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I'm pretty sure blues musicians steal lyrics all the time.
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Oh, and I'm not a "Zep hater", if that's what it seems like. I think they're sometimes given more credit than they deserve and I never really listen to them anymore seeing as I've heard virtually their entire discography on the radio at least 75 times (and I hardly even listen to the radio), but I don't "hate" them. I think some of the criticism they receive is ridiculous. For instance, "Jimmy Page was such a sloppy guitarist."
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And thats really only true of his earlier material. He showed a lot of improvement on later albums.
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Who ****ing cares? Tons of blues guitarists had sloppy technique, including, oh, what's that one guy...oh yeah, Jimi Hendrix. Being sloppy doesn't inherently mean that you're a bad guitar player.
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Agreed.
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However, I don't understand what's so horribly wrong with the plagiarism accusations. I can't even see why people try to defend the band.
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Zeppelin did take lyrics and they did do uncredited covers. But they didn't steal riffs. And even so a lot of things have been incredibly exagerated or just plain made up. Communication Breakdown is the best example, you have idiots who obviously haven't actually heard the song Nervious Breakdown by Eddie Cochran and just make the retarded conclusion that its a ripoff based on the similar song title.
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It's fairly obvious to me that they did steal a good bit of material.
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Lyrics. And if you recall Ethan didn't say stolen lyrics, he said stolen riffs.
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I mean, hell, were they not successfully sued a couple of times for it?
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Lyrics.
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The avid LZ fans who can't seem to admit that the band ever did any wrong try to justify it with bullshit like, "Oh, well everyone was stealing riffs in the '60s," but that's not true at all.
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Have you even read anything I said? I took all the examples made from Slick and that link he posted. Looking past all the lies and inaccuracies. The only good example I found regarding riffs is the one for Moby ****. And I think Jalen has already covered that for me.
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I'm sure a handful of other '60s bands did lift a riff or two, but I can't think of anyone who plagiarized to the extent that Led Zeppelin did.
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For crying out loud. I just explained that with all the alleged examples of stolen riffs that it was only the lyrics. Try listening to the actual songs, youtube them.
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Things like the intro to Stairway To Heaven are arguable, sure, but on several occasions the band covered songs and took full credit for writing them, and that's plagiarism. It's not even debatable.
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This is where its more about the band personally then their music. Plagiarism? Sure, but they're covers, therefore not ripoffs, besides they did credit them eventually, its in the past, get the f*ck over it. The assh*les just didn't credit the writers, THATS IT. Do you want to f*cking ban covers now? Every band does covers, lets talk about hey they steal songs and riffs eh?
And is the fact that a lot of these uncredited covers sound a lot freaking different from the originals anyway completely insigificant? Zeppelin are completely unoriginal after all.
And look, I have NEVER made it out that the band did no wrong, I can't stress that enough. What I have a problem with is people taking the truth and completely fabricating things, exagerating it to death with baseless conclusions and stuff that are just plain lies. That link for example, most of the songs they called uncredited covers are NOT uncredited covers, at all. Just songs with stolen lyrics. And never mind the fact that blues artists steal lyrics all the time, or that Zeppelin were never a lyrics band. Its just fine and dandy to take THAT and try to discredit the band completely. It justifies all the lies, amirite?
Yes I am a Zep fanboy, but because I actually know a few things about this band I can tell you when something is not true or full of crap.