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Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent
I never presumed that being stuck in a closed circle was a bad thing--futility is not bad, it renders good and bad meaningless, two sides of a coin some force is compelling you to flip for all eternity. Asking for the purpose of God is limiting yourself to thinking in experiential terms, which is impossible if God sits outside experience. We recognize our own nature in the Ouroboros, and if this recognition leads us to assume God we must also assume his nature is radically different, and incomprehensible to us. I'm not saying this is a step we have to make! I'm just saying it's one we're compelled to make, especially if we want have meaning and value.
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I disagree that taking the step you are describing leads to meaning and value, for the reasons I mentioned in my last post. But I think you and I are just going around in circles on this point so I'll leave it at that.
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Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent
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Originally Posted by janszoon
What makes you think that the goal of morality is for "man to overcome his own nature"? To me, it seems like the goal of morality is to create as pleasant a life experience as possible for ourselves and others.
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Then your conception of morality already entails a contradiction. You live off me, I live off you, and the whole world lives off of everybody. See we're gonna be exploited by somebody by somebody la la la la |
I see no contradiction in trying to create as pleasant a life experience as possible for everybody. Not sure where you're getting the whole exploitation angle from. That's the antithesis of what I'm talking about. The idea is to
not exploit people, that's why empathy is so important.
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Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent
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Originally Posted by janszoon
So how can you possibly derive a moral code from a being that sits completely outside of experience? If he has no communication with humanity, then how can he be of any assistance with regard to morality?
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Again, because we realize the futility of our own nature, and in assuming a being with a higher nature we see our purpose as overcoming ourselves and striving toward divinity. But I have already said that this "higher nature" is incomprehensible to us, so how the hell are we supposed to strive toward it? That is the ultimate mystery of life. Either there is no point to life or there is a point but no way to be certain what it is. But that's also the beauty of life. If there was a point and everybody knew what it was life would have no impetus to realize that point. |
You still haven't answered where the moral code comes from. How does wondering about striving toward a higher power tell you that murder is wrong for example?
BTW, I just want to thank you for the stimulating intellectual discussion. It's not what I generally expect to find on a music board, but it's great to find someone who is able to express an interesting viewpoint so articulately.
