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On the subject of ignorant...Proggy you know you're stuff on this but after World War II you're treating it like the Jews had nowhere to go and Israel had a bunch of empty land. That's not true. Palestine lost half its land to the UN and then Israel turns around and occupied even more then just that half. 750,000 people were kicked out in 1948.
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I realize the situation was horribly and unfairly mishandled but it didn't have to be that way. There's room for both groups and I think it's incredibly stupid how Israel has tried to take more land than they were originally given but I can't stress enough how the conflict doesn't come from lack of land.
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Palestinians have roots in Israel too and unlike the Jews at that time they didn't have anywhere else to go. They could've made new lives in America or any other countries. They were even offered unpopulated land in Uganda. I believe the situation was handed horribly initially by the UN (on pretty much every front) but unfortunately we can't go back and deal with the situation differently.
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So yeah, I agree with just about everything you've said here. But remember, there's plenty of room in Israel for both groups geographically, sadly that doesn't seem to be the case ideologically.
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Basically what I'm trying to say is the middle east is a clusterfuck and the blame lies everywhere and if you go into who started what, who was victimized, who did badly you'll end up pointing your fingers in every single direction.
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Agreed, that's what I've been trying to say all along.