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Originally Posted by sleepy jack
It's also worth noting, while there are many many many individuals to blame for the bubble - Clinton and Bush's administration, the Congress throughout the 90s and 2000s and Barney Frank's complacency - the man at the forefront of it all, Alan Greenspan, was a Randist who spent his years as Chairman of the Federal Reserve deregulating and getting government out of the way...which is exactly what Ron Paul is proposing.
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ya, 100% regulation is the way to go. talk about a way to bring economic activity to a halt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy jack
If you want to know where the money is going visit here Recovery.gov and read about the package or listen to some of Obama's speech on it. It isn't a secret. As for where it's coming from that's also not a secret. There are four kinds of bonds (treasury bonds, treasury notes, treasury bills and treasury inflation protected securities.) These are all traded on secondary markets. Which basically means whoever the United States sells the debt to first will move it around for short term gain then sell it to a country already making money off US debt (countries like China, Japan or the United Kingdom.)
What the hope is with this stimulus package is, by putting and saving millions of American jobs, more money will continue to go into the market (this coupled with the tax cuts and tax increases on the rich shifting the burden back onto the wealthiest Americans) and the American economy will continue to prosper and then the debts can then be turned around and paid off. This isn't some secret under the table dealing with China or anything, it's a fairly straightforward system that is beneficial to both parties. We get the short term economic gain (in other words stimulus) to put us on a road to prosperity and in the long run the countries which lent to us get paid off and then some. The bonds are beneficial to the countries as well, China regulates their currency with treasury securities. |
ideally it sounds great. you borrow money and make some more with it, then pay it back and keep the profits. the only problem is it never is paid back. maybe you didnt notice that we had a 3 trillion dollar debt (now around 11 trillion) before this... thats after the bull market of the 90s. you see we never actually intend to pay our debt off, we just always keep borrowing. its easy to pretend like america will be the best investment forever, but its just not the case. so either in our lifetime, or our childrens, if china/brazil/whoever becomes a better investment in the long run.... goodbye usa. you see essentially we have chopped up and sold off our country. imagine what would happen to the economy right now if china and japan decided it was gonna move their assets to russia or the UK. the country would crumble.
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Originally Posted by sleepy jack
I haven't heard the bus driver story but if it's anything like I imagine it is then yes, he is too blame for simple stupidity but so are the banks (I imagine this money for the house was lent to him? If they didn't this kind of situation is still applicable to the amount of people struggling with mortgage payments.) It's not like the banks sat back and said "hey this is stupid, you'll never be able to pay for this house" instead they offered all their fucked up subprimesuperloans and told these people they could afford these things. To your average, uneducated and ignorant American, this sounds great. The American Disease breeds this sort of mindset that we all need a house and we all need this sort of lifestyle that we can't afford, particularly with the extreme wealth difference in this country.
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the banks are not really responsible. it is essentially the same as saying that you decided to skip the manual on your new power tool, and when you cut your finger off its the companies fault. just because you dont understand something or didnt take the time to, doesnt make it the other persons fault. the bank didnt put a gun to their head and make them sign their name on the bottom that says they are responsible. im not gonna say the banks were being good samaritans, but they arnt really responsible for homeowners who cant pay their mortgages. BUYER BEWARE.
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Originally Posted by sleepy jack
The top 5% controls over 90% of the wealth and they're reaping all the benefits of the overall GDP. Ralph Nader has said we have a Welfare system for the rich and we do. Most people didn't listen to Nader, and to a lesser extent John Kerry though. We're in two wars right now and we're still operating under Bush tax cuts? This is a problem, especially when these tax cuts are for the wealth and corporations meaning they can afford to continue to hyperinflate the bubble and convince your average citizen to take out all these home equity loans and pay for things with credit cards. These people don't pay attention to the national debt clock and to them they thought they were getting richer, despite the fact the middle class was slowly slipping below the poverty line (which is something that is very disconcerting. A country can't lose it's middle class, Aristotle realized this first as being vital to a nation's well being and everyone from Adam Smith to Karl Marx agrees, though Marx would've stressed complete income equality as a solution but the point is a middle class is vital.) This is what happens when you create an economic bubble though, everyone has a wealth effect and doesn't realize it until the bubble ops that it was only an effect. It is going to take drastic policy shifts, and money, to get out of this this post-bubble-explosion economy were in. The solution isn't just letting things go though; we don't need another Robber Barons era in America.
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you said it yourself... we are far closer to a keynesian economy, one that likes to make sure that national debt clock keeps running and we somehow ended up with 5% of the population owning 90% of the wealth. i agree this is terrible, i agree the rich should be taxed at a much higher tax rate, i agree without a middle class a country is lost. however, throwing a bunch of borrowed money at failed companies, and expanding the government and their power is NOT the answer. government money ends up feeding the same people who own 90% of the wealth. government is just as corrupt as private business, they just kiss more babys while doing it.