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Originally Posted by lieasleep
the sex pistols and other old school punk outfits were not adolescent, you are misunderstanding me. their music was VERY simple and COULD be rocked out to by bunch of teenagers in a garage yadah yadah yadah but what they lacked in talent, they made up for in passion and message.
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That's what I'm saying though, I don't think the Sex Pistols had the passion they're claimed to (or if they did it has been vastly surpassed), and their "message" was, well, idiotic. Just because it's political doesn't mean their politics should be lauded. Moreover, the fact that they delivered their message with no artistry or subtlety gives me the impression that the poltics was more important to them than the art. Also, it takes way more balls in rock to write a pro-establishment song than an anti-establishment one, and in fact the "anti-establishment" IS "the establishment" in rock.
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i don't hear you getting on folk for being traditionally very simple music. and that is, more or less, what i see punk as being a rock version of.
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The folk music I've been exposed to--mainly '60s singer/songwriters like Dylan and Morrisson and recent indie-folk artists like Devendra Banhart--is music of subtle originality and artistry. Very different from punk.
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a very anti-political and scathing view on societal norms through the eyes of very passionate, often times angry music. and i mean real punk, none of this Green Day (too much message far to little good music, at least these days), Blink 182 watered down bull**** "punk" and maybe the sex pistols AREN't a great example of that, although i do really like Nevermind the Bollocks and it did have some very anarchical messages .
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Anarchical messages are hardly a good thing since anarchism is pretentious radical-chic nonsense.
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but bands like the Dead Kennedys, Minor Threat, Black Flag, etc. really embodied the punk movement and ideals and were bands that owe a LOT to the sex pistols.
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I do respect those bands somewhat for their passion and intensity, though I don't really listen to them often. If it were true that they were indebted specifically to the Sex Pistols and not to early punk in general, it might be a case against my argument that Never Mind the Bollocks had a negative effect on music, but it wouldn't make the album any better, it would just show that it has been surpassed.
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punk even gave way to the post-punk movement, Sioxie and the Banshees, the Fall, Joy Division, Echo & the Bunnymen, the Cure, Depeche Mode, etc. were made possible in large part because of the progression of the punk movement that was really spearheaded by the Sex Pistols. Joy Division, for example, started out as Warsaw and made a damn good punk album before changing their sound a bit. but Joy Division only formed Warsaw because they saw a Sex Pistols show. they are very influential and in no way overrated.
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I LOVE post-punk. Talking Heads are my favorite band of all time, and even the Sex Pistols-derived Public Image Ltd. were shockingly good if only a rare listen for me (probably one of the most evil, zombie-like aesthetics I've ever encountered). But I don't think the sounds those bands had were specifically Sex Pistols-influenced, and in some ways those bands (especially on the synth-pop Depeche Mode side) actually owed as much or even more to art-rockers like David Bowie, Brian Eno, Kraftwerk, and adventurous producers like Giorgio Moroder than to punk rock.
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Originally Posted by Janszoon
Bummer for you I guess and also kind of sad if you think laughing is "weak".
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It isn't weak to LOL, but it is to LOL in lieu of defending one's opinions. I'm glad this time you've at least started to explain what you take issue with.
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The idea that art can be defined as "regressive" strikes me as kind of silly.
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How? Power chord-based shock-tactic hard rock is NOT a timeless thing.
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Also, hearing a 17 year old saying he or she can't tolerate things that are adolescent is also pretty humorous and, ironically, it's a fairly adolescent way of looking at things.
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16 actually, but it's irrelevant, it has no bearing on what I should look for in art. Also, I specifically gave an example of a certain situation in which I can appreciate "adolescent" music, but I don't think the Sex Pistols fall into that category.