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Originally Posted by tore
How about from a nutritional point of view? I know Vegangelica argues we can stay healthy from eating plants, but I'm somewhat sceptical. Many biologists, in particular an Iver Mysterud here, believe that the lifestyle diseases many have today and even crime and violence in society stems (in part) from our modern diet. Grains like wheat, milk (lactose) and sugars in general is thought by many to cause changes in behaviour (responses toto our environment) and also causes a range of lifestyle diseases like cardiac problems, problems with teeth or diabetes.
So, as an argument against veganism or vegetarianism, this is completely relevant. I think one of these indigenous peoples, if they made a lifestyle choice to vegetarianism and started living like Erica, they would get more sick. On the other hand, if the average american male makes this choice, I'm not so sure - he might get healthier. What I'm basically thinking, though, is that from a health point of view, veganism/vegetarianism is not optimal.
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Sorry, Tore, I missed your post at first and only noticed it now.
You are completely correct that the transition from the hunter-gatherer lifestyle to agriculture in Eurasia, dominated by a few starchy grains such as wheat, led to greater disease, reduced stature, and more teeth and spinal problems among early agricultural societies. I recommend you read Jarod Diamond's article about the problems caused by agriculture:
Diamond, Jarod (2987) The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race. It is old but good.
http://www.environnement.ens.fr/pers...ed_diamond.pdf
However, the nutritional and cultural problems, such as inequity and social stratification, associated with early agricultural societies were not caused by the diets being more vegetarian, but by the diets being based primarily on a few staple starchy crops. These diets lacked variety and provided insufficient nutrients, resulting in micronutrient and macronutrient malnutrition (plus bouts of starvation when crops failed). Monocropping is a bad idea. Unfortunately, humans still have to learn this.
In contrast, a hunter-gatherer diet had a much wider variety of all sorts of foods, both plants and killed animals, providing micronutrients and macronutrients (protein, carbohydrates, and fats). A diet consisting mostly of wheat simply cannot complete with a varied diet such as a gatherer-hunter diet.
Yet a diet that provides sufficient nutrients does *not* have to include meat.
Tore, it really
is true that well-planned vegan and vegetarian diets *are* as healthful as well-planned meat-eating diets. Again, the American Dietetic Association (the United States' main professional organization for nutritionists and dietitians) provides a very clear position statement on the healthfulness of vegetarian and vegan diets, backed by ample research from peer-reviewed journals. This most recent statement was published in 2009:
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Vegetarian Diets American Dietitic Association, 2009 (The American Dietetic Association is the world's largest organization of food and nutrition professionals.)
It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.
Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals.
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You are correct that the typical Western diet, which the U.S. is happily exporting around the world by promoting meat and dairy consumption and industrial foods (high fat, high calorie foods like fatty sweet foods), is increasing heart disease rates and obesity and type 2 diabetes. In many developing countries, there are now more overweight people than undernourished people!
The problem is not a vegetarian or vegan diet but a POORLY PLANNED DIET (combined with a more sedantary, urban lifestyle). To be blunt, I think most people don't know what they need to eat to be healthy. They probably don't know the difference between unsaturated fat and saturated fat. They don't know of the benefits of omega-3 fats (unsaturated fats prevalent in canola oil, flaxseed, and fish) vs. omega-6 fats (prevalent in corn oil). They don't eat enough fruits and vegetables. They think they *have* to eat dairy products ("three servings per day!") because that is what they have been taught (can we say milk lobby?). They eat sweets, an abundance of fatty dairy products (ice cream), white flour pastries, and far too much meat, especially red meat, with its cholesterol and carcinogens. And they wash it all down with soda pop. And the result is they suffer a higher risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, and a variety of cancers...the "diseases of affluence."
All of these problems caused by the modern Western diet are *not* problems caused by vegetarianism. They are caused by people receiving bad nutritional advice or, in some cases, simply choosing to eat whatever they want regardless of the health risks.