Music Banter - View Single Post - Recording Singing Vocals on a PC - Looking for some straight answers
View Single Post
Old 12-28-2010, 03:42 AM   #8 (permalink)
Freebase Dali
Partying on the inside
 
Freebase Dali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,584
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_13th View Post
Thankfully my PC is quiet.

Longterm Ill be wanting one eventually but what price to condensors start?
Rode's NT1a is $350 (AUD) but that includes the pop shield, cable and shock mount all of wwhich id need anyway. There was a 2nd hand NT2 available if I wanted it but it comes with a preamp that Im pretty sure i dont want because like uve suggested I just feel the audio interface is a better option for me.

Hows that Yamaha Audiogram6 stack up? Looks pretty good on paper. But the few reviews I am finding are mentioning pops crackles etc during recording, apparently the software is the cause? Which kind of defeats the purpose right?
They usually start at around 60-70 (US Dollars) and go up to like 5 or 6,000 dollars in some cases.
Starting out, the price range you'll want to focus on is going to be in the 100-200 dollar area. That range isn't going to be the industry's absolute best, but it's not going to be shabby at all, either. I bought an MXL condenser for right around 99 USD and it sounds great, and I've been having it for right around 4 years now and it has taken some knocks and a lot of dust and still gives it up like a Catholic schoolgirl.
A lot of condensers come packaged with a shock-mount (usually a necessity due to the amount and range of vibrations they pick up) so you may not have to worry about that. And pop filters are cheap... I picked up a generic brand pop filter for about 10 dollars and it does the job well enough. You don't really need to go fancy with pop filters... just as long as it's not so crappy that the gooseneck doesn't stay where you put it then it will do the job.

If you're dead set on a Rode, I think their lowest price is around the one you're talking about, but if I were you, I'd consider other brands as well, because you may be more than satisfied with something else and not have to pay so much. Especially if you get the opportunity to go to an actual music shop and test some brands & models out. (Ideal!!!)

Here's an example of an absolute lowest priced, what some would call "entry level", MXL model:
MXL 990
Read the reviews on that page and get a general idea of what people are saying and compare that to your expectations. But just so you know, even that mic right there would be a better overall choice for vocal recording than an SM58 or any other dynamic, obviously.

Here's another MXL model (includes shock mount & pop filter) priced a bit higher than the 990:
MXL 3000
If I'm not mistaken, this one is pretty much the same as my MXL which is a 2006 Mogami edition, except this one looks prettier and has slightly different sensitivity and ohm ratings. I can tell you from using the 2006 that it has a very detailed (and present) high end, which most MXLs do, and I personally like that (you may too, since you're a tenor if I remember correctly), but some folks may not. But since this has a cardoid pickup pattern, you can easily angle the front of the mic off from your mouth and that will tame the high end without losing any noticeable gain, while you'll still be able to pull back and out for level control without worrying about not getting the db drop you need.

Finally, I'll put up one I'm personally looking into buying and it's affordable and has a lot of good reviews:
Sterling Audio ST55
From the looks of it, it has a flat response and doesn't add much color to your voice, which is something I value from a mixing standpoint. If you just want clarity and accurate response, this one looks like the ticket.

Ultimately, what you have to ask yourself is what is the character of your voice and which microphone is going to benefit it. If you're able to go into a music shop and compare mics and hear them for yourself, then that's fantastic. If not, just read through the reviews and get a sense for a microphone's character and consider that first. A microphone can be generally "good" or "bad" but that won't mean anything if you can't stand the way a microphone makes your voice sound, and because so much subjectivity goes into it, you're in a better position to decide the "right" one. But hopefully my suggestions at least provided you with a bit more of a scope of options for you to check out.




K. Regarding that Audiogram6:
Reading the specs on it, immediately a few things popped out... First, it's 16 bit. Your audio interface should be 24 bit. Why? Because 24 bits offer a much larger dynamic range and a lot more headroom. When recording, you'll have a lot more freedom with your gains than you would at 16 bit, and as a result, you're less likely to clip and distort. 24 bit depth is a no-brainer. Even onboard sound cards on cheapo consumer laptops are 24-bit almost as a de facto standard now days. So requirement: 24 bits. Check.
Along with that, the Audiogram6 only operates at 44.1khz sample rate. Although you may not plan on recording at any higher sample rates than 44.1khz, just know that 44.1khz is the bare minimum samples (or slices of audio, like frames) needed to represent the human voice acceptably. If your audio interface supports it, you can operate at higher sample rates to achieve a higher resolution, with most interfaces topping out at least at 96khz. It's nice not so much for playback, but for recording purposes. If your audio interface's converters are sampling an incoming analog signal (say your voice through the mic) at more "frames" than the bare minimum 44.1, you're allowing it to grab up a larger portion of that signal, resulting in a "higher definition" recording. Would you ever want to do this? Maybe, maybe not... but you could if you wanted to. And as you'll be recording a minimal amount of elements, I'd say it could be beneficial, although there is debate about whether it even makes a discernible difference to our ears with the higher rates.
Also, it uses USB 1.1? That seems strange to me, considering how slow 1.1 is compared to 2.0, which is usually what USB audio interfaces use... but hey, I guess it's not an issue if it's being sold.
Other than those items, you could assume that the preamps on the unit aren't going to be stellar by any means, judging by the rest of the unit. The Preamps are one thing you should probably focus on, seeing as you'll be using a mic primarily and for voice. Finding out what preamps are used in the unit should be of interest, though generally you can choose a "good" audio interface and the preamps (and AD/DA converters, by the way) will most likely be of good quality, as these are some of the things that dictate the status in the first place.
That unit's input/output options are fine. If you stay around 5 or less individual inputs, you'll find that a lot of those units will feature USB connectivity. Firewire is usually used for interfaces featuring a lot more ins and outs, and since you won't be needing many inputs, you won't have to worry about needing to add a Firewire card if you didn't have one already.

K, so we know you need an audio interface with:
- At least 2 inputs sporting XLR (xlr/trs combo connectors are nice too) connectors w/ decent preamps
- 24 bits (24 bit units usually also feature higher samplerate options by default as well)
- Phantom Power
- USB connectivity to PC
- Recording software bundled (which is frequently the case)

Going by that basic list, here are just a couple possible candidates to get a feel for:

M-audio MobilePre mk II
M-Audio unit (good brand) with your needed features, plus the software it comes bundled with is Pro Tools SE. I'm sure you're aware that Pro Tools is the industry standard for recording/mixing/producing software. Not sure how limited the SE version is, but I guarantee you'll get a crap ton more functionality out of it than you will from Audacity. Oh, plus it's dirt cheap as far as audio interfaces are concerned.

Focusrite Saffire 6
Another low cost unit, this one only offers 2 individual inputs (and if you don't ever plan on recording more than 2 inputs at once, you don't need more than that) but from the looks of the reviews, has an emphasis on the preamps being nice. Everything else matches up, except you get Ableton bundled. From what I understand, Ableton isn't exactly geared to being recording friendly, but that's neither here nor there.

By all means, search around, but having a good look at the specs of those units and the general reaction to the quality of the units will tell you a lot about what you should be looking for.


Regarding pops & crackles due to that interface (or any for that matter), that's usually due to the buffers in the audio card or music program being set too low for your computer to handle. Usually you have the option to set your audio buffer size to adjust for latency and stability, a low buffer resulting in low latency but decreased performance and stability (manifesting most often with pops and clicks and jumpy audio) and a higher buffer resulting in higher latency but better performance and stability. If you've got a beefy computer, you can usually set your buffers very low without any consequence, but on lesser computers it becomes apparent when the buffers are too low. This is true for any audio interface, so keep that in mind when you're operating whichever interface you choose, as this isn't an issue limited to a particular brand or model.


Well, my hands are about to fall off.
I hope this helps a little. If you have any further questions, let us know.
Freebase Dali is offline   Reply With Quote