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Old 01-04-2011, 09:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
Bloozcrooz
Justifiable Idiocracy
 
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Texas
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Originally Posted by tore View Post
First, I wanted to write thank you for an honest answer Because I didn't get one earlier, I expected it wasn't something that christians would like to get into because they would worry about being attacked in a one-sided argument.

I point out these things specifically because they are things that I would have trouble with myself, had I believed in God and this story of Moses as it is. It's true that God (through Moses) did warn the egyptians, or at least the pharaoh, so it was part the pharaoh's decision to not listen which led to so much suffering for the egyptians. The way they suffered was all in control of God of course, so I don't think one can call it a natural consequence from a lack of obedience. It's like saying if you drive without a seat belt, I'm going to kill you. If you then kill someone because they didn't do what you said, you did the killing and you are responsible for that. You didn't have to kill. Similarly, God obviously killed these egyptians. He's clearly a vengeful God in this story and instead of giving the egyptian people a chance at atonement, he only warns the pharaoh who in the story was a very proud and difficult person. It seems God had a wish to kill them because if he really wanted to spare their lives, he could've done more to persuade them and he basically could have chosen not to kill. In the red sea, why drown the following egyptians for example? He could've just made a wall of water blocking their path.

As such, I can't accept that he is always fair and merciful based on this story. The first born children of the egyptians were killed and were not given a chance at life. Where's the fairness in that?

The idea that you can't question God is understandable. How could we ants attempt to understand the grand scheme anyways? However, I wouldn't be comfortable with the passive role that one should not ask difficult questions.

The idea that there's no reason for interacting after Jesus builds on the assumption that God's only motivation for interacting is because he wants to save people from sin and that this is something Jesus now has done for us and for people in the future. I'm not sure I believe this as he/she/it seems to have different motives in other stories. For example in the story of Noah and the flood, he kills almost everyone and everything. The motive doesn't seem to be to give people and animals a chance at salvation, but rather to wipe the slate clean so that he can start again, another story which does not seem fair or merciful to me!

I could add at the end that in the story of Job, God lets Satan take Job's wealth, children and health - everything he has, just as a test. After suffering, because of his dedication to God, Job is reimbursed for his loss (suggesting that his children have worth the same way objects like footballs or bikecycles have worth), but it still looks very much like playing with the lives of people, not entirely unlike the way the Olympian gods play with the lives of people.

I realize that christians may not believe these stories, even if they are in the bible. For example the story of the flood seems very far fetched to me and many christians too, I'm sure. However, the story of Moses is fundamental to the bible and is regularly referenced in sermons. I imagine it might be a hard one to "escape" for believers.
Religion is always a touchy subject to talk about. You seem to have a lot knowledge about Christianity. I wish I had all the answers but I dont. I still have a lot of questions myself to be honest. Through the years as I get older I have more and more. Always good to hear what questions other people have and hear things from their side as well. I guess one day we will all know the truth.
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