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-   -   Welcome jayshreddz as our newest moderator! (https://www.musicbanter.com/announcements-suggestions-feedback/61630-welcome-jayshreddz-our-newest-moderator.html)

Sparky 03-28-2012 02:14 AM

you guys put way too much thought into it, and then get frustrated when no one notices.

Believe me, I don't wanna read 750 words of text. All you have to do is the album title and embed some youtube videos so i can listen for myself. I have no interest in joining a club or attaching myself to anything.

I'm exceptionally lazy, i don't know what others think, but i really only look to discuss how i feel about whatever artist im listening to currently and don't really care about the original post that much.

Guybrush 03-28-2012 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky (Post 1170595)
you guys put way too much thought into it, and then get frustrated when no one notices.

Believe me, I don't wanna read 750 words of text. All you have to do is the album title and embed some youtube videos so i can listen for myself. I have no interest in joining a club or attaching myself to anything.

I'm exceptionally lazy, i don't know what others think, but i really only look to discuss how i feel about whatever artist im listening to currently and don't really care about the original post that much.

Then we're quite different. I do read long posts and if I see a thread dedicated to a band, I would like to be able to read a bit about where the band comes from and how many albums they've put out f.ex. I generally loathe the kind of new band threads which only post a youtube movie and then a minimum of text. To me, that sort of lazyness represents in large part the decline of MB. If everyone posts like that, this place loses all substance.

edit :

To me, the phrase "nuff said" generally means "I wanted to inform you of something, but was too lazy to apply anything but an absolute minimum effort into doing it". :rolleyes:

Sparky 03-28-2012 02:28 AM

But google already defeats the purpose of all that.

I go on mostly to be turned on to new music and comment on it. The original post is just a gateway to the discussion, i've never noticed a more thought out description of the band as ever lending to richer discussion.

I find when the original topic is too focused on one particular aspect it limits the discussion

Guybrush 03-28-2012 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky (Post 1170598)
But google already defeats the purpose of all that.

I think if you have an album club with friends, you are generally interested in their opinions on the album being discussed. You can't google them. If everyone's too lazy to write more than half a line of text or even too lazy to even do that, then what was the point in describing and nominating that album for discussion and elaborating on your feelings about it in the first place?

I'm not complaining about the way things were, just trying to point out a problem. If you write a long post and only get met with least-effort-replies, then it could sort of make you wonder what the point was with writing that large post at all. Your work largely goes unrewarded.

That's what happens here. If you put effort into something, that often goes unrewarded. The only way to prevent that from happening is by not putting real effort into anything and then you get that shallow sort of forum where 90% or more of posts in the average music topic contain nothing worth reading.

Sparky 03-28-2012 02:43 AM

haha, in that case im unfortunately part of the problem

SATCHMO 03-28-2012 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tore
If there's any way to change the culture of a community, I don't think it's by punishing people for writing the short, witty retort which we see a lot more of these days (or whatever behaviour it is you don't like). Rather, you have to reward people who you think are good posters. F.ex when RMR writes an album review, that should be rewarded with something more than just a few comments in a thread.

Wow, that is absolutely, 100% true. I wish I had realized that a long time ago.

Guybrush 03-28-2012 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO (Post 1170606)
Wow, that is absolutely, 100% true. I wish I had realized that a long time ago.

I guess this is sarcasm. What I'm saying is that to change MB in a direction we'd like, we have to make MB a place which rewards the behaviour we want to see. Just punishing the behaviour we don't want is not enough. Such changes are a lot easier to do with the backing of a caring administrator who respects the community and is willing to make changes.

GuitarBizarre 03-28-2012 03:37 AM

Thats beautiful, whats it called?


http://eatenbymonsters.files.wordpre.../picture-1.png


Its called "Lick My Love Pump"

SATCHMO 03-28-2012 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore (Post 1170608)
I guess this is sarcasm. What I'm saying is that to change MB in a direction we'd like, we have to make MB a place which rewards the behaviour we want to see. Just punishing the behaviour we don't want is not enough. Such changes are a lot easier to do with the backing of a caring administrator who respects the community and is willing to make changes.

It's not sarcasm at all. If anything it's an indictment of my own ignorance. I kind of had a mini revelation reading your response.

Howard the Duck 03-28-2012 04:06 AM

i'm too new here and have nothing to compare it with, besides reading the old metal posts, which were full of idiotic poseurs, and i'm grateful for the metal community we have today

like i said, if djchameleon were not as firendly to me as he was when i joined, or that we didn't develop a friendship here and on the chatroom, i'd never have stayed

jayshredzz merely got off on the wrong footing, personally i don't mind him, as i said a few pages earlier, it was just a wtf moment

mr dave 03-28-2012 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO (Post 1170481)
Here's the deal. everbody who's been a member of this site for at least the past 2-3 years has noticed a significant drop in the quality of the forum. There's been multiple threads created on the subject with everyone giving there own two cents as to what they believe the reason is. More theories have been postulated about this than theories about what killed the dinosaurs. The truth of the matter is that the amount of active members on the site has grown immensely, yet the proportion of people who actively engage in intelligent, respectful discussion regarding music (of all things) has not grown commensurately. The sense of community and unified purpose used to be the hallmark of this place. For my own part, it's the reason why I was once very active on here.

Part of the problem of this is the way that mods are chosen. In one sense it's a great thing that mods are elected by other mods, because we're able to see first hand whether or not a member will be an appropriate fit for the position, but sometimes it doesn't quite work out that way. When a mod comes into their position having already developed relationships with some of the members, there is a hesitancy to to their job with any sort of impartiality. It's difficult to effectively be in a position of power while still desiring to be respected and well-liked by one's peers. The result of trying to balance both is a hesitancy to take action when action is necessary, as well as favoritism, which clouds judgement. In the end, what you have is no longer a unified sense of community, but a collection of cliques, and on the mod side, a bureaucracy that impedes progress.

When I was given my first tenure as moderator, it was very controversial because I hadn't been a member for very long at all, but as people got to know me they discovered that I was genuinely interested in the community and really knew my stuff. Perhaps the best thing to do with Jayshredzz is give him the benefit of the doubt. It's understandable that as a new member he's testing out some of his more unpopular opinions and realizing the power to provoke others to strongly disagree with him. That'll mellow out as he becomes more acclimated to engaging in discussion on here, and as he's called to make impartial decisions as a moderator. I honestly think that this may be exactly what MB needs to become a better forum and I look forward to being more active here than I have been in quite some time.

Anyone who's been on a forum for 2-3 years has seen this. It's the unfortunate reality of the cyclical nature of webforums. This is the 4th 'community' I've been involved in and the 4th time this EXACT same line of discussion and issues came up. Every place goes through some sort of golden age when all the most active posters are great and everything is super awesome and then it falls apart. Either people get bored or real life issues take precedence, whatever.

I also think a major factor in the diminishing quality is a result of the popularity of the ancillary subforums that aren't specific to particular styles or core purpose of the site. Look at the amount of views for The Lounge compared to the rest, only 1 subforum even comes close (within 100 000 - 99 000 to be exact). People are not joining this site to talk about music. They're joining a social club that ends up talking about music (like it's a unique topic of discussion) as opposed to the intended role of those subforums as a place to discuss randoms things after having discussed music.

The other problem is subjective vs. objective discussion. Subjective discussion is passionate and emotional, filled with drama and personal opinions. It's ultimately baseless if you want to participate in a thread that reaches a conclusion truly worth reading, but it's generally a whole hell of a lot more entertaining than a scholarly discussion (which tends to be super clique-ish).

I'm hoping Jayshreddz is a techhead and was made a mod so that he can work within the guts of this forum and whatever others owned by its parent company to modernize it (and not someone's little brother). The worse thing the owners of this place could do is try polling and satisfying the community prior to revamping the site. Someone like JS who doesn't seem to care about anyone and vice versa is probably the best candidate to spot areas of improvement for the owners.

None of the changes need to satisfy existing members, we ARE the reason the site is in its current state, they need to attract the right kind of future users. Otherwise, this is just a glorified Facebook group page.

Dr_Rez 03-28-2012 08:18 AM

I have applied for modship 2 times over my 5 years here and been denied both times after writing a very length explanatory application, including a few projects and ideas I wanted to do with the forums. Both times a member who had joined literately months before was chosen. Pretty disappointing.

Janszoon 03-28-2012 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RezZ (Post 1170682)
I have applied for modship 2 times over my 5 years here and been denied both times after writing a very length explanatory application, including a few projects and ideas I wanted to do with the forums. Both times a member who had joined literately months before was chosen. Pretty disappointing.

You have? I don't ever remember you having applied during times when I was part of the selection process but you would certainly get my vote.

anticipation 03-28-2012 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RezZ (Post 1170682)
I have applied for modship 2 times over my 5 years here and been denied both times after writing a very length explanatory application, including a few projects and ideas I wanted to do with the forums. Both times a member who had joined literately months before was chosen. Pretty disappointing.

While I have never applied for modding or wished to assume the position, I'd have to agree with this sentiment. I can't say I'd agree with the modding of anyone aside from Janszoon, Tore, Freebase, and Pete from our current batch of 2009-2012 mods in terms of their contributions before they were appointed. And I'd still be willing to say that a good few of them still don't deserve to be mods. But I admit that the days of a charismatic administration who contributed heavily to both the musical and technical sides of the job are long since gone probably due to the heavy influx of spamming and "bureaucracy" that is apparently rampant behind the scenes.

Dr_Rez 03-28-2012 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1170699)
You have? I don't ever remember you having applied during times when I was part of the selection process but you would certainly get my vote.

One was back in 09 I think and the other was I think early last year. Im sure I missed a few I never know when they are looking unless I happen to run into a thread for it.

Howard the Duck 03-28-2012 09:30 AM

s_k put me up for voting to become a mod

i'm not really that interested, tbh

making up wise-ass comments already take up too much of my time

FETCHER. 03-28-2012 10:23 AM

I may have been a bit unwelcoming but to be fair I was still blue'd from the weekend (Thats the problem with those vallium, you think they're away but they never are). I am also under the impression the guy is a complete robot considering he was a member for little over a week when he was modded. There is much more deserving members here who should be modded and you all know who they are. Anyways, congratulations Jay I guess.

Burning Down 03-28-2012 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation (Post 1170701)
While I have never applied for modding or wished to assume the position, I'd have to agree with this sentiment. I can't say I'd agree with the modding of anyone aside from Janszoon, Tore, Freebase, and Pete from our current batch of 2009-2012 mods in terms of their contributions before they were appointed. And I'd still be willing to say that a good few of them still don't deserve to be mods. But I admit that the days of a charismatic administration who contributed heavily to both the musical and technical sides of the job are long since gone probably due to the heavy influx of spamming and "bureaucracy" that is apparently rampant behind the scenes.

Me :laughing: I applied to be a mod here sort of on a whim and was surprised to be selected, to be honest.

The Batlord 03-28-2012 10:35 AM

I thought this thread was a joke at first. Some random dude just got made a mod for no apparent reason? I wonder if some jackass didn't just give his son a job to keep him from spending all his time snorting coke? This is why it's retarded to have a company run message board.

LoathsomePete 03-28-2012 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation (Post 1170701)
While I have never applied for modding or wished to assume the position, I'd have to agree with this sentiment. I can't say I'd agree with the modding of anyone aside from Janszoon, Tore, Freebase, and Pete from our current batch of 2009-2012 mods in terms of their contributions before they were appointed. And I'd still be willing to say that a good few of them still don't deserve to be mods. But I admit that the days of a charismatic administration who contributed heavily to both the musical and technical sides of the job are long since gone probably due to the heavy influx of spamming and "bureaucracy" that is apparently rampant behind the scenes.

I find that incredibly rude to Pedestrian who works non-stop in trying to run weekly music themes, the Monthly Trading Post, and the year-end voting.

Unknown Soldier 03-28-2012 10:56 AM

Just seen this thread as well, it seems to be the old case of a newbie being handed a plum position and the others not liking it.........its human nature I suppose. Basically Jayshreddz has just come in and he doesn't know the community and the community doesn't know him, basically just give the guy some slack and judge him after a reasonable period of time and not before he's even started.

The Batlord 03-28-2012 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier (Post 1170730)
Just seen this thread as well, it seems to be the old case of a newbie being handed a plum position and the others not liking it.........its human nature I suppose.

It's not just that. It's the way that this shows that the company or whatever that owns this site, doesn't seem to give two ****s about this place, or how what they do might affect the atmosphere of the forum.


Quote:

Basically Jayshreddz has just come in and he doesn't know the community and the community doesn't know him, basically just give the guy some slack and judge him after a reasonable period of time and not before he's even started.
I don't know him that well, but considering some of his posts so far, he seems like just some dude who doesn't care about music any more than any other random dude you could pick off the street.

FETCHER. 03-28-2012 11:11 AM

Fuck the system.




























It just seemed fitting and I like saying it.

Unknown Soldier 03-28-2012 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1170731)
It's not just that. It's the way that this shows that the company or whatever that owns this site, doesn't seem to give two ****s about this place, or how what they do might affect the atmosphere of the forum.

I don't know him that well, but considering some of his posts so far, he seems like just some dude who doesn't care about music any more than any other random dude you could pick off the street.

I agree with your first point about the atmosphere aspect and the faceless company appointing a mod of their own and have always thought personally, that mods should either be voted in by other mods or by other members that have a certain post count (at least 1.000) The mods should also be representative of the sub-forums as well, for example each sub-forum should have somebody well versed in that type of music to give a decent representation across the board.

Second point though is where I differ, the guy has been appointed and he just accepted the job. All I know about him is that he loves Pearl Jam (which is really good) and dislikes Neil Young (which is really bad) we don't know too much about his musical knowledge and his ability to do the job, but he should be given a chance to show what he can do.

For fuck sake it could've been much worse, we could've had Hip Hop Bunny Hop made up to a super-mod and we could've had the Klan running the forum.:laughing:

AmazingPurpleCat 03-28-2012 11:40 AM

Well shoot, I leave for a couple of weeks and this happens?

Salami 03-28-2012 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmazingPurpleCat (Post 1170742)
Well shoot, I leave for a couple of weeks and this happens?

You do realise this was all your fault?
They desperately needed new administration help to cope with your absence.

Paedantic Basterd 03-28-2012 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoathsomePete (Post 1170729)
I find that incredibly rude to Pedestrian who works non-stop in trying to run weekly music themes, the Monthly Trading Post, and the year-end voting.

Thank you, Pete.

It's ignorant generalizations of our staff as seen above your post that really make me want to give the users what they seem to want and start doing fuck all, then see if they notice a difference.

I had something fun planned for April, but maybe I won't put in the effort now.

Thom Yorke 03-28-2012 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 1170752)
Thank you, Pete.

It's ignorant generalizations of our staff as seen above your post that really make me want to give the users what they seem to want and start doing fuck all, then see if they notice a difference.

I had something fun planned for April, but maybe I won't put in the effort now.

At the same time, I don't think it's fair to make generalizations on the opinions of the users based on one comment. You were basically the unanimous choice on tons of MB awards this year. I'd put more weight into that.

Paedantic Basterd 03-28-2012 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Yorke (Post 1170758)
At the same time, I don't think it's fair to make generalizations on the opinions of the users based on one comment. You were basically the unanimous choice on tons of MB awards this year. I'd put more weight into that.

Ah, you make an excellent point. It's hard not to get angry when people come out of the woodwork and say you're unqualified and contribute nothing. My threats are empty. There's still going to be an Easter Event; it's too much fun not to go through with.

Burning Down 03-28-2012 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 1170760)
Ah, you make an excellent point. It's hard not to get angry when people come out of the woodwork and say you're unqualified and contribute nothing. My threats are empty. There's still going to be an Easter Event; it's too much fun not to go through with.

I'm excited.

crash_override 03-28-2012 12:20 PM

This decision blows.

GuitarBizarre 03-28-2012 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier (Post 1170730)
Just seen this thread as well, it seems to be the old case of a newbie being handed a plum position and the others not liking it.........its human nature I suppose. Basically Jayshreddz has just come in and he doesn't know the community and the community doesn't know him, basically just give the guy some slack and judge him after a reasonable period of time and not before he's even started.

It really isn't that. Before Jay was modded his posting was so bad people were literally sure he was a troll that was going to be banned within a few days. That reaction wasn't bull****, that was because his posts were TERRIBLE and he had already earned a bad reputation.

Then we find out he's a mod all of a sudden? Yeah. Expect a bad reaction.

Dr_Rez 03-28-2012 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 1170752)
Thank you, Pete.

It's ignorant generalizations of our staff as seen above your post that really make me want to give the users what they seem to want and start doing fuck all, then see if they notice a difference.

I had something fun planned for April, but maybe I won't put in the effort now.

pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff ffffffff:bowdown:

You are a kick ass mod. Dont listen to anything or anyone. Especially with organizing the weekly themed threads and many other things. We need more like you in fact.

/ass kissing over

Paedantic Basterd 03-28-2012 12:26 PM

Thanks Rezz, though if I remember correctly, I was one of those freshies that was modded when you also applied. :(

Dr_Rez 03-28-2012 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 1170768)
Thanks Rezz, though if I remember correctly, I was one of those freshies that was modded when you also applied. :(

Yea but as I also mentioned not all of them were bad. I think you are the only one or maybe 1/2 that are actually left. Maybe the other is Freebase, but he is a fantastic mod as well. I shall speak of this no more I feel the ban hammer near!

Unknown Soldier 03-28-2012 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre (Post 1170766)
It really isn't that. Before Jay was modded his posting was so bad people were literally sure he was a troll that was going to be banned within a few days. That reaction wasn't bull****, that was because his posts were TERRIBLE and he had already earned a bad reputation.

Then we find out he's a mod all of a sudden? Yeah. Expect a bad reaction.

Certain people when they enter a new forum for the first time and are not used to the way things work and the nuances of the forum etc. They can come-off as bit antagonistic, especially when they start giving out different opinions or vibes and are also not really susbstantiating their opinions either, I wouldn't call this being a troll, I would just call it a newbie trying to find his feet a bit and most either do after a while or just end up leaving or getting banned. A troll is different, this is somebody on a mission to cause problems and usually hijacks threads to do so or starts up threads guranteed to cause a stir. Classic trollls have included Cherry Picker (I think that was the name, the guy that stated every band had ripped off the Beatles and rock music didn't really exist before them) The Virgin, Erasertime and Franco Pepe Kalle, none of these guys were/are insulting but they knew hold to invest time in a thread, that was sure to antagonize a certain amount of members on here.

GuitarBizarre 03-28-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier (Post 1170789)
Certain people when they enter a new forum for the first time and are not used to the way things work and the nuances of the forum etc. They can come-off as bit antagonistic, especially when they start giving out different opinions or vibes and are also not really susbstantiating their opinions either, I wouldn't call this being a troll, I would just call it a newbie trying to find his feet a bit and most either do after a while or just end up leaving or getting banned. A troll is different, this is somebody on a mission to cause problems and usually hijacks threads to do so or starts up threads guranteed to cause a stir. Classic trollls have included Cherry Picker (I think that was the name, the guy that stated every band had ripped off the Beatles and rock music didn't really exist before them) The Virgin, Erasertime and Franco Pepe Kalle, none of these guys were/are insulting but they knew hold to invest time in a thread, that was sure to antagonize a certain amount of members on here.

Please, go and read Jay's post history.

Unknown Soldier 03-28-2012 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre (Post 1170792)
Please, go and read Jay's post history.

Ok you've twisted my arm, I'll do it.

MoonlitSunshine 03-28-2012 01:10 PM

For the second time: There is more to the moderation of a forum than being involved in the community and helping its growth. It's great when you have a team which can both "moderate" and help the forum develop, but in my own experience of hiring mods (forum with 6 million posts, 100,000 registered users and 3,000 active users, and a three-tiered team of over 30 moderators, I know what I'm talking about), you can't always get people who have everything.


Satch has said it before, and I know other people have as well - the way mods are recruited on this forum is great, for one aspect of moderation. When it comes to dealing out the letter of the law, it IS harder to be just when you know the people involved. It DOES lead to a group where the "accepted" members of the community receive better treatment than outcasts/newbies. It's generally not intentional, but even the most just of people generate small bias over time.

So Jayshreddz didn't make the best of first impressions. I honestly couldn't care less under the circumstances. he has implied that his job here has nothing to do with what is considered here to be the standard moderating role. There is far, far more to the running of a forum than being well-liked, responsible and contributing. Noone here knows anything about him or his qualifications, so as far as I'm concerned he could be far more qualified for his particular role than any of the volunteer mods here.

Finally, this is presumably a source of income for the owners of the website. Presumably, they want someone they trust relatively involved in the moderating and the development of the site, in order to maximise profit. A random volunteer from the forum isn't going to necessarily have their best interests at heart.

FETCHER. 03-28-2012 01:11 PM

In all seriousness I thought it was a joke because I thought he was a troll...


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