Professionalism or ability to play instruments are not really central to what punk is I think. The true essence of punk is the middle finger '**** you' gesture, and the Ramones had plenty of that

Did other punk bands say that about the Ramones? Rock fans who weren't into punk rock certainly said it but in punk circles aren't the Ramones pretty much revered by everyone that matters? Yeah I know there's always contrarians, it comes with the territory of the punk movement.

Anyway virtuosity and perfection are not the same thing, we can agree on that right? There can be perfection in primitivism.

You don't even know you're siding with the Ramones. Unfortunately I don't have receipts and am not about to scour the internet for them but among their contemporaries they were legendary as the most incompetent musicians around. Johnny Ramone's constant drilling was probably the only thing to make them competent to play the simplest songs without devolving into a horrific din of four people playing different songs at the same time.

The fact that they were incapable of any sort of musical flourish combined with the dedication to playing rock and roll at its most stripped down form possible removed any distractions from all killer no filler hooks, allowing for pure sonic momentum at all times. They were the ultimate realization of what rock and roll had always promised of visceral simplicity but never quite delivered until then and could never perfect more than they had afterward.

The only thing I can say is that you need to listen to their first three albums on repeat for a week until it clicks and you realize that they were the messiahs of rock and roll.

They have a nice ditty here and there.

You poor simpleton. All their ditties are fire.

*all have

Incompetent.

I'm not denying their lack of technical ability, I'm saying they were smart enough to work with their limitations and make music so simple they could play it without f*cking up.

And yes I've listened to those early albums a lot, they're primal but not really sloppy and there is a difference.

If you want a punk band that truly sounds like a (glorious) tranwreck then what you're looking for is The Germs.

The first time I watched their performance of Manimal in Decline of Western Civilization I almost died of laughter, it's so awful yet so great.

I miss the days when they used to post here…

When who used to post here?