Is it no? They shouldn't be reported if people know its a joke?

I mean, you can report Trollheart's jokes if you want.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread. So continue.

I remember discussing it before, thanks. And I remember pointing out to you that we already have guidelines and precedents for such occasions.

Yes, I remember.

So let's say a moderator stumbles over a short, nonsense post. What do the MB moderators guidelines or policy say a mod should do?

Yeah but you're (seemingly) grouping them together which makes them sort of the same. It's not like you're saying "having fun/causing offence" and they're obviously two separate things. The oblique links the two, as if they mean the same basic thing. I think. My head hurts, I think I need to lie down.
Obviously Goof is talking about serious offensive posts, like when a stranger/newb tells you to **** off. Or makes some sexual reference when they don't know you. Stuff that would not be seen as acceptable by the majority here, am I right?
My jokes are offensive, this is true.

As for Roxy wanting the poll (and while I hesitate to speak for her this is what I understood her to mean) it wasn't like she said "Oh yeah! Let's have a poll!" It was more like "stop all the going round in circles and just put a poll up so we can vote and see if this is worth continuing."

Watch where they're walking in future?

I had assumed that's what Goof meant, I just wasn't sure.

Your ass looks nice by the way.

Why thank you. We call them donkeys over here though...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...E0oXLKuxrqZnj2

^I said let's vote on it so people were not forced into something they did not truly want. So yeah TH you were correct.

Concerns: I'm concerned that if we try it and we don't like it we can't go back.
I'm ok with change, I'm not ok with not being able to revolt and stop the madness.

So let me see if I'm smart enough to grasp this.
Safe Zone=lounge
9 pts equals week ban
Over 9 or multiple infracts equal perma ban.( Somewhere someone's keeping track.)
No endless use of meme/giff / not accetpble?

Is this it in a nutshell? Am I missing anything important?

Tore:
May I say this to get this off my chest please don't be offended,its completely out of respect I say this to you openly in front of God and everybody,

You have a genuine love for MB and I see that, you want a fair place where everyone feels welcome, safe, and not a ",wasteland of spam" (TY JD I had to borrow it.), and awash in hateful comments and mind numbing arguments played out via giff, memes, one liners,& emoji. That is commendable in its own right, your approach sucked man, you were so I'm right you are wrong about it but in a polite manner it was and is infuriating. Your timing was terrible also, Urban's leaving my have inspired you to help MB to clean its act but it was IMO too soon. (What do I know anyway) I think with those two factors in play I think Soulflower, while my friend ( I do not say this lightly and have chosen my words carefully Jen don't be offended) my have unknowingly latched on to your idea and expressed her hurt feelings through your idea and it came across as vengeful and sullied your initial ideals.Calling for new mods when that isn't what was needed, a heart to heart was what was needed between her and the two mods that have issues and they should have had Yac sit in so the air could be cleared betwixt all parties.(Again my opinion.) I just want you to hear me when I say I felt pushed to completely agree with you on everything which is part of the reasons why I suggested a vote from the from the first thread and OP. When that feeling arises in me its because I'm so American it hurts and I feel honestly voting should be a way EVERYONE'S voice be heard regardless of the ideas creator being right or wrong. I like you brother, so don't take this as bash on you as a person, I would never dream of doing that, rather a bash of your delivery and timining.Thank you for your effort man, I give a **** about this place and its members and I don't want to see it pissed away so I'll always respect you for that even if we disagree from time to time.

And that's all I have to say about that........

why do you people continue to care?

is the only rational takeaway message from this whole spiel imo

We should have a poll to see if we should have more polls.

This site needs strippers. Let's have a stripper poll. http://www.atheistnetwork2.com/image...ace_smiley.png

We need to know if we want to have a strippers pole first. Let's put it to a vote.

I haven't voted yet till I think this over, but there are only a few items on the poll that I think are worth it. The need for more mods e.g., that would help regardless of if there are rule changes.

I think it can be very relative what is considered banter what is unwanted chatter, because a conversation can so easily branch off the main theme, does that mean ion every case it is off-topic and subject to warnings/infractions. I think the boundaries to what constitutes off topic conversation, nonsense posts and trolling should be discuss first rather than that should rules be changed (which seems to some to be just change for the sake of change). There are no proof that the present rules that members agreed to when they first signed up are insufficient, when they are not fully exercised. The atmosphere as of present seems to be site seems quite laxed. The only way to know there needs to be rule changed if the present rules are enforced full tilt and the despite even that the forum is still in chaos. Otherwise the present rules are not really the issue.

Of course you are. Great post Roxy and may I say congratulations for such a long and relatively typo-free one on a phone with a cracked screen! (You not get that fixed yet honey?) That post was really from the heart and I don't see how anyone could have any problems with it.

So here's the problem I have with it.

Nah, just kidding hon: it was perfect and should really be the final word on this, though of course it won't be.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves: we should have a poll, to see if we need a poll, to have a poll to see if we need more polls. And what have you against Poland anyway? ;)
Now there's something we can all enjoy! :D

Time for another useless wall of text, but I feel this needs to be said, especially in the light of what Roxy has pointed out.

I think maybe if we compare MB to a country we might get our best metaphor. At the moment, say 80% of the people are happy. They work, they play, they contribute. Some fight, there is some prejudice, there is some intolerance. This will always be the case; you will never eliminate this sort of behaviour and so we will never have a Utopia. No government will ever change things that benefit a minority (unless they're rich and powerful) and alienate the majority of voters.

The thing is, I never saw this "constitutional crisis" that's being bandied about now. MB is not perfect, by any means, but who would expect it to be? To my mind it was run more or less by a benevolent junta, who took care of all the little things we didn't have to know about or bother about, and made this a good place to be. Now suddenly it's to be a democracy. Why? What's wrong with the current system? Apart from a few isolated incidents here and there, can anyone (including tore) point to a string of occurrences that proves a pattern of behaviour has been in play? I've seen people fight, get angry, make up, pout, sulk, threaten to leave, accuse everyone who wasn't of the same mind as them about something, but that sort of thing happens all the time, and will continue to do so no matter what. Guess what though? The place has not fallen apart.

I find much of this new poll unnecessary. Do we need new mods? Who cares? If the mod team feel they need more members they will recruit them, as they always have done. When Goofle was made a mod did we have polls and endless debate? No. The guys knew he was the man for the job and he got it. Nobody would begrudge him the position. But now we have to be asked if more mods are needed? Why has that anything to do with us? We don't see or know what goes on behind the scenes in their crazed, debauched sessions in the Mod Cave. Maybe they're fine as they are, maybe they need help. Why do they need us to ratify that? Why is it important that we all have our say?

You can apply that logic to pretty much all of the poll. Who sets, or at least implements the infractions? The mods do. Do we not trust them to do their jobs to the best of their ability? And anyway, it's not a job is it? They don't get paid. So whatever way they want to run this forum, the way they have been running the forum, should be okay. I'm totally unclear why there needs to be change, particularly of the magnitude tore is/was suggesting?

Tore and others are worried about (among other things) new members not sticking around because they don't like the atmosphere here. Well I'll tell you one thing: if they read these threads they're likely to shake their heads and say "These guys can't even agree among themselves how to run this place! How can I enjoy a place like that?"

To the outside viewer, the newbie or those recently joined and still to decide if they want to stay, we're looking like a bunch of bloody amateurs who can't even decide on what colour the walls should be, rather than a fairly happy bunch of people who have been living in the same house for years and years.

On phone, so will be brief, but I think a community discussing stuff like mod policy and forum culture can be a sign of health. If there's an unhealthy aspect to it, it's in the responses; how people discuss it.

@TH I got a new computer, and tablet. I did my reply via tablet.I spent a few minutes thinking about my response as well, contrary to some beliefs I'm really not that much of a bitch.;).

I wanted to be accurately heard as well as understood, when change is forged as an act of at attrition rather than it coming from deep within the consciousness and hearts of the people, its disingenuous to its core, however pure the initial motives. I wanted that heard and understood. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and it would be sad to see the spontaneity , the heartfeltness, the rawness,the good the bad and the ugly all ripped out of this place because a noob or 12 got butt hurt and judged us without reading the context.

^I too like the spontaneity and fun of MB and I feel that there are some strawman arguments and misapprehensions that have yet to clear up, despite all the discussion. Like rule enforcement - if it was more consistently done, it wouldn't target spontaneity and fun. It would target rule breaking.

If the community wants the freedom to break certain rules, that's a legit opinion. I think the solution then could be to change the rules so that they are rules that can be consistently excercised without killing the freedom that the community wants to protect.

You know, make the rules more lax if needed, but enforce them. It's better than having rules for show or just follow them up in some cases and not others without it being predictable to members.

To summarize, a lot of these suggestions can be implemented in a way that preserves all the current freedoms and forum culture. It would just tidy up the system a bit.

(I do want a stricter environment, but I know opinion is against me and I just wanna point out it doesn't have to be all or nothing)

Thanks Roxy :)

srs question though... what about the civil war?

the abolition of slavery despite the overwhelming opposition to such a change from the white members of the slave-based southern society?

and the north's reneging on the initial agreement laid out that states would have the right to succeed from the union, in order to prevent the prospect of federal tyranny?

or the later civil rights movements/advances, when it became necessary for big brother to march in with the national guard and force the predominant white racist populace to tolerate black students going to their schools and ****?

*fallacy alert*

*lazy vague challenge alert*

try harder frownland

How to get lazier: False equivalence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

be more specific

what equivalence am i making?

i'm saying the idea that change needs to come from the hearts and minds of the people isn't always true... so i was providing historical examples of change coming through force rather than voluntary adoption of some ideology

Meh, trying too hard to be devil's advocate if that's the best you can do because that was ****e. I was waiting for a "what about the nazis!?" post. You know exactly what you're doing and I don't need to spell it out for you unless you are actually as daft as you make yourself out to be sometimes upholding this contrarian persona.

stop acting like you can lecture me, kid. either address my points or **** off.

Using something as monumental as the Civil War to gauge the stance of a few members of an on-line forum is pretty ridiculous.

Your points are shit because

Sometimes points are dumb enough to debunk that even someone like myself can do it without trying or caring about the concept being discussed.

debating over the politics of an online forum in general is what's ridiculous to me

so i guess i was trying to inject some real politics to make this **** more interesting

There are other more interesting things that we could all do that this forum is capable of hosting. I find this debate to be unnecessary as well.

i didn't actually make any equivalence though... you're just throwing out vague fallacies to sound smart. i wasn't making any sort of comparison between forum and the civil war, lol. i was questioning the principle that change needs to come from the hearts and minds of the people in general, and i used a quirky example because otherwise this issue is just so deathly boring it might as well be cspan

If you find it boring and tedious, why post here at all?

It's like pointing out that you don't care. Obviously you care enough to point out that you don't care.

What about slavery? Kind of like this right?
Equates the thread to slavery.

What about the civil rights movement? Kind of like this right?
Equates thread to civil rights movement.

Like I said before I'm cool with you playing devils advocate all the time, just don't expect me to lay back and not say anything when your tactics become ****ty.

It's like complaining about sports fans when you're not a sports fan.

that might be an accurate criticism if roxy was only saying forum changes on musicbanter need to come from the hearts and minds of the people

but i know her well enough to know that she extends that logic into the real world and politics

so i was using real world examples to go against it

and you want brownie points for linking me to some wiki fallacy page instead of actually trying to engage in any kind of meaningful discussion

i thought roxy's post was pretty poetic tbh and i was just trying to **** with her a bit... and then frownland came in with his wikipedia knowledge and hipster beard and it turned into a cluster****

It's like complaining about the loud party your neighbor is having when you're not interested in loud parties.

What does Roxxy have to do with this? Not to mention that fallacies are a concept because people use them when they are adhering to ****e logic. If I say that aliens are responsible for the elements of the forum that tore doesn't like, should I expect you to give tl;dr responses apart from 'that's ****ing stupid dude
? Of course not. The fact that what you're using is bad logic is enough to disprove your point.

well, i have been mostly absent in this thread/debate and i figured it was over anyway but i was interested in roxy's post so i started some ****

Oh ok. I've been absent as well but I've still been halfassesly following it so I took interest in calling out your bad logic.