boo boo

*Epic face palm*

That's not what I meant at all, I said I'm against hate crime legislation.

However. I think killing someone because they wronged you somehow or pose some kind of threat to you or your loved ones, is a more reasonable/justifiable crime than simply because of their race, gender, religion, sexual preference, whatever.

That's what I was saying.

But that's just my opinion, except for in certain cases, I don't think it's the legal systems right to judge how "immoral" a murder is and compare them to each other. The problem with hate crime laws is, if you killed a person for any random reason, because of some irrational hatred, as a lot of psychopathic killers do, then that should qualify as a hate crime. Killing someone because he thinks Dane Cook is funny is just as much of a crime as killing a person because of his race.

I mean these people probably judge only by the skin color, so even if the reason you killed a guy is because he porked your wife, if he's a black guy, it could be called a hate crime even if his race had nothing to do with it. And that's wrong. If you kill a person, the severeness of that crime shouldn't be rated by the color of the victims skin.

It implies that the lives of minorities are more valuable than the lives of white people.

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It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

ProggyMan

Take a ****ing joke.

CanwllCorfe

I hit yes for some reason until I read through and this is really making me think things differently. I think it's cause I live in a redneck town where a lot of kids are racist and our local fair has stands that exclusively sell confederate flags.. not a US one to be found. I despise it.. but that's free will. I agree that they should be punished equally because everything else is freedom. That's like saying racists should get more time simply because they're racist.. a bit hypocritical isn't it. I'm probably stating things that have been said over and over again but I'm just putting in my 2 cents.

Scarlett O'Hara

You should really calm down, I am constantly seeing you bag other members of these boards and it's just not on. Especially considering you just joined. I don't expect you to start ass kissing people but give others respect and you will gain respect. Because even though I can't speak for everyone, I'm getting the consenus that you're coming off as a prick. Deal?

My opinion on hate crimes:

I believe that hate crimes are that in which people are attacked specifically due to their sexuality, race or religion.

Let me ask you all some questions: 6 million Jews were killed between 1939 and 1945 (WWII) due to Hitlers fabricated ideas on what the perfect race should be. They were persecuted due to the fact that they were of the Jewish religion. Is this not a hate crime?

The African American slaves were brought over to America and treated lower than how animals were, and only recently (the last decade) have gained full rights and equality in society. People who discriminate them are committing hate crimes, am I right?

So continuing to someones sexuality. How can we let religion alone determine whether someone can have a partner of the same sex? Religion is not supposed to be related to politics, so why was Prop 8 voted for as a majority? The bible belt of American still controls the way the country is run. I believe that someone who is abused physically, sexually or emotionally because of their sexuality is absolutely a hate crime.

Whether or not to severly punish someone for committing a hate crime is an interesting question, and I think that it should be treated like any other crime, but with the added element of hate entered into their sentence. Such as, sending the convicted to classes that teach how people of different sexualities, races and religions should be treated, because crimes of such nature are often based on personal ignorance.

There needs to be more done in schools, there are so many cases of bullying using taunts to someones sexuality which have lead to suicide of 8 year-olds! It's just awful. Thoughts?

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Mirrorball95

Take a run & jump.
Well at least you admit to it...
This is exactly what i was saying, its a crime anyway whether theres particular racist motives or not.
You miss the point with these crimes. Whether its a hate crime, is irrelevant when determining how they should be punished(which in the Nazis case, they(most of them) escaped it) as it is already a crime in itself- murder. Now I agree that the fact that they were killed for such ridiculous reasons such as their religion/colour of skin etc shouldnt go totally ignored but at the same time as someone mentioned previously they are making out that the black people have more rights than the white people if they take it more seriously just because of the colour of the persons skin.
For instance, imagine if you gave a black person for instance racial abuse in the street - theyd be nicked in an instant & imagine the difference say if a black person gave a white person racial abuse in the street; it wouldnt be taken seriously at all.

Also as for sexuality, I dont have anything against anyone who is ***/bi, whatever. I can understand why the term hate crime is in use as ,like i said before, I dont think it should go unnoticed, just dont think it should have a massive influence on cases where the crime is murder for instance & not the fact that the guy was black, which I think is a crime within itself.

EDIT: As for me 'bagging' other members of the board, I only do it as much as they do it to me. I dont know why people single me out as opposed to the other 'offenders'. As for 'just joined' I dont see how that makes a difference, so people who have a certain amount of posts all of a sudden have a liscense to 'bag people', as you call it, on the forum?

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Scarlett O'Hara

I'm going to reply the rest of what you said later as I'm off to sleep, but for now, I meant that you need to stop igniting the negative responses you get. If someone else does say something negative towards something you've said, take it with a grain of salt. Get to know the members better and you'll stop taking everything so personally. People arn't out here to get you, but if you continue to respond so stupidly, others might continue to take that weakness and single you out.

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Mirrorball95

I thought, what the f*ck for a minute there as its twenty past 2 here lol.

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The Unfan

If it happens on school property I could see why the school could apply some form of punishment. If the abuse takes place off of school grounds than the school has no business intervening.

Outside of self defense there is no reason to cause harm to another human being against their consent. Adding extra for an emotion is silly. Premeditation should determine the sentence, not the motive.

Scarlett O'Hara

I see what your saying, however, at my particular University here in New Zealand, if you commit a crime of any sort on or off campus, you can be fined/punished by the University due to being representative of it's institution as it can draw a lot of bad press. So this could be applied in schools, to account for bullying in and out of school. Just because it happens off grounds doesn't mean something shouldn't be done about those who are committing the acts at their associated schools

I think you're simplifying things too much. You can't just say, oh that person killed someone, it was wrong, that's it. Emphasis is always going to be on the motives to why someone committed a crime. Therefore, a motive of racial, religious or sexuality needs to be taken into account to separate those who kill randomly from those who kill for a deeper reason. If the issues of hate arn't addressed, peoples minds will never change, and people will continue to hurt others due to their status once they have completed a sentence.

Why do you think there are so many reoffenders? Because governments do not provide adequate kinds of reform for those in prison or on home detention.

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asshat

...there's also the matter of "hate speech". I thought it was only for bleeding hearts until I got a pamphlet in the mail from this christian fundamentalist talking about the "sodomite agenda" and "homofacist conspiracy". It felt like a slap in the face, and I can't imagine how any homosexuals who received it felt. That's when I realized this guy should be charged with more than a simple bylaw infraction, and thought that maybe hate crimes legislation might serve a point. I called the guy who sent these pamphlets and he used the "freedom of speech" defence. He was essentially a weasel and a coward getting volunteers to deliver his defamatory hate literature for him.

....intent plays a large part in how courts decide verdicts. I'm not saying that evertime a white guy beats up a minority it's a hate crime. There are certain cases though where a crime is intended to intimidate or "send a message" to an entire group.
....I can understand why hate crime legislation would be justified but like a lot of people I don't know effective it can really be.