This is heated? This is a debate?

Seems more like a bunch of people disagreeing with someone who takes everyhing personal. I dont think anyone is trying to change your mind Chula but when youre fighting for somehing a lot of active members disagree with youre going to get called out. Its happens to me, it happens to you, see MERIT for the best examples.

Going back to what Frown said about people thinking they need a gun being pussies, it's true.

I've actually had a gun to my head with the alleged intent to shoot. I never felt like I needed a gun after that. Maybe if I'd have been actually shot.

I don't think it's necessarily heated. But it seems that when certain people get into a discussion like this, someone always ends up offended or upset. Luckily, that stuff tends to defuse itself within a few posts.

"Why do people expect me to scrutinize my beliefs, rather than just take the easy road and follow them blindly until I die?"

Because you're better than that.

No he isn't. ;)

Uh huh.

TBF he did come from what sounds like a working class Irish area with all the intolerance for other world views that that implies and at least graduate to a form of liberalism. That speaks to something positive about his ability to perceive the world outside of the mores of his culture. He just needs to unlearn a bit more of it.

I don't speak from a lofty position where I throw lightning bolts of shade as I myself have come from a somewhat similar background I imagine and got plenty of programming that I've had to recognize and discard, and a lot of that **** still looms very large in my brain and not just subconsciously. You just can never become complacent as if making some progress you're proud of means you can sit back and pat yourself on the back and say "Mission accomplished!"

What if you want to?

Every man and woman is a work in progress.
Except me, of course.

That's what alcohol is for.

It counts as progress if you discard a failure and build a better one.