Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 2198366)

Scientific racism is absolutely not simply an American thing, even if it did take hold especially deeply here for obvious reasons, but do you think Whoopi's ignorance of it means phrenology will make a come back? Stop gesturing at your point and actually make it.

Originally Posted by jadis (Post 2198369)

My point, repeatedly stated, is that the US race discourse of the 2020s offers a worse than useless grid of intelligibility for Nazism.

I don't even want to know the chain of inferences that led you to assume I somehow implied that scientific racism was "simply an American thing."

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 2198371)

You did not repeatedly state that. You said that US race discourse was essentialist and then posted an example of someone simply not understanding the Nazis' views on race, which doesn't even sound like essentialism unless you see something I don't. Your point is incoherent and weird.

Originally Posted by jadis (Post 2198373)

The point that the US race discourse is noted for imposing rigid, reified, essentialist categories on the wider world - and that WG's statement is a prime example of just that - is not remotely controversial for anyone NOT swimming in the cesspit of activist talk regurgitated on podcasts and gaming streams by some of the least intelligent people in America.

Everything I say should be incoherent and weird to you. Had there been a frictionless understanding between us, notwithstanding differences in background and education levels, then... it would be an illusion promoted by me because I want to have sex with you. That would've been the only explanation.

Originally Posted by Chubbysailorvenus (Post 2198374)

Ethnicity is real, race isn't real so it's whatever racists decide it is.

At least in America discrimination against the Irish, the Italians, the Slavs and other ethnic groups we now identify as white ceased because in other to keep black people and other minority groups in the margins we had to make sure white people remained the majority so we made whiteness more inclusive. Jews have always been an outlier, in modern times they have become somewhat accepted by the mainstream as white but enough people continue to see them as outsiders, they exist in this grey area and it's part of what makes them such a popular scapegoat for extremists and conspiracy whackjobs of all kinds.

If Neo-Nazis got their precious white ethnostate there would immediately be a civil war over who is really white, whiteness is something that was simply made up to exclude others and when people's identity hinge entirely on excluding others they will move the goalposts so they can keep doing that.

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 2198392)

If you believe in phrenology you need your head examined.

oxymoron

And did not explain to us plebs what essentialism - which I have never heard of before now - actually is. Despite being asked to.

Or that you're gay. And have very low standards. :laughing:


You're exactly right. It will turn into "degrees of whiteness", with some arbitrary criteria used to determine who is "really white", perhaps those with blue eyes and, I don't know, blonde hair?

Also have you seen this?

American Nazis in Florida

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 2198398)

I see. Thank you for that. Sounds bloody stupid but at least now I know.

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 2198392)

Also have you seen this?

American Nazis in Florida

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 2198378)

I mean you talk about essentialism and then show someone not essentialising race. Maybe explain why saying Jews are white people is essentialising? Saying that Jews are inherently greedy or black people are inherently criminal or Asians are inherently good at math is essentialising.