Music Banter - Life After Death

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- - Life After Death (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/35635-life-after-death.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation (Post 567455)

magic, duh.

Silly me :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackhammer (Post 567417)

We are EXACTLY here because of many random glitches. If many things did'nt happen to the planet then humans would almost certainly not be here. Simple as that

I believe that part yes, but even if you trace the universe back to nothingness there's still something being created from nothing. This is why I believe in some sort of higher power, though it's certainly not what they're describing in church.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent (Post 567326)

I think scientific materialism is unable to account for subjectivity. Atoms, black holes, galaxies, even the brain are merely symbols which we have somehow been able to create out of nothing. As such, I don´t think I=my brain is a fair statement. I am able to create representations but as such I cannot be equivalent to them. I have the ability to create rules of logic and the trajectories of propositions to their conclusions, but I also have the ability to doubt the efficacy of language, even of the reality of my perceptions. What am I, the representations I generate or the force that generates them? To you I am the sum of my actions, and you assume that these actions are the results of thoughts or impulses I experience. But I am not their slave, I can rebel. I can refuse reason just as you refuse faith. I am able to transcend. I don´t necessarily think I´m going to Heaven after I die, but my essence may persist, even if only through others. To crudely paraphrase many great thinkers, nature does not know beginnings and ends, only progressive transformations. I can talk about this forever, I don´t have any firm beliefs one way or the other because this question is, like most interesting questions, beyond the limits of experience.

But if you can't experience your essence's persistence then is it really life? What is your essence anyway? I consider myself defined by my thoughts and all my actions are usually presupposed by some thought. So if my brain dies and I stop thinking then I stop acting and ultimately experiencing any form of life as I know it. I don't believe that just because some subatomic matter continues that I will necessarily continue as I am now. I have never in my life heard someone define God or Soul or a soul in any way that can be really sensibility discussed.

I understand that the world exists to me only as a manifestation of my senses and for all I know I'm some alien experiment and this is all fake but I may as well operate in the reality I'm dealing with. And in doing that I've concluded that there can't really been an after life unless my brain somehow takes on a ghostly form, which I don't believe could happen. I think if you choose to operate and think within these rules than you'll find we know way more than you're giving credit for. As I stated there's rules of logic that everyone follows in every realm of life except the spiritual realm and when you apply it there the existence of an after life looks highly unlikely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dac (Post 567521)

Chemical reactions created life even in it's most primitive forms. This is proved. It would be comforting to know of some higher purpose but it's all just molecules and accidents i'm afraid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackhammer (Post 567535)

It would be comforting to know of some higher purpose but it's all just molecules and accidents i'm afraid.

To our knowledge yes, but there may be something more at work. I don't know what, nor do I think I could ever understand such power... which is why I don't practice any religion. I just feel that there is something greater than us.

Listen to Bokonon.
We're all part of a plan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack (Post 567530)

In that case, I´ll attempt to define the soul and God. The soul is that which is common to all of us, can also be thought of as ´the will,´ it lies beneath our thoughts and is not defined by them. Rather, our personality is defined by our thoughts and actions, but these are simply the result of our soul interacting mechanically with every other soul. However, it only seems like there are a multitude of souls from our position, since we are entrenched in reality. Really there is only one soul, which reflects itself infinitely to interact with itself and avoid boredom. This is what is commonly refered to as God, so the only difference between us and God is that we are trapped in reality and hence have a limited perspective. The `random´ interaction of molecules or atoms is the will communicating with itself. Interpersonal interactions are the same. So are the movements of celestial bodies. When you die, you step outside your body and realize yourself as every soul simultaneously, which makes everything feel very very very pointless so you can either step into another body or into the void.

I only half-believe this, because it´s a somewhat comforting idea, but I think it´s pretty hard to disprove.

I guess it´s worth pointing out that I didn´t just pull this out my ass, Hinduism, Schopenhauer, Borges, Leibniz, Edgar Allen Poe and Erwin Schrodinger agree with me :p:

On the other hand I think that's equally hard to prove.

If your "soul" was to enter another body though would it carry your memories and intellect? If were defined by our thoughts and actions and we don't carry those over with us when we, well reincarnate, then is it really you living after your death? Or just an essence that is in us all moving on to another temporary vessel? Also if you take away the brain from this soul; are you just sort of...a general but ultimately unthinking and unfeeling force? I guess what I'm getting as is my basic problem with this idea. If your brain is gone and you don't carry your personality (I use personality not to describe random quirks but your intellect, thoughts, idealism, actions, memories, etc.) with you and you no longer have the thing (your brain) you use to experience everything you can never really know what happens and you can't really live or be aware of your existence; which I'd consider death.

I think pure self-awareness is consciousness of the self as nothing, in the sense that Sartre says. I don´t really define myself by my personality or intellect, that´s how other people define me. I feel like I could lose all my memories, my likes, my appearance, my opinions, and there would be something left (a general force, sure) that I recognize as being more fundamentally me. If all my personality experiences is ultimately my diffracted selves, then once I discard of it every personality would still be there, since they must in some sense be in the will/soul, ready to unfold. As such, I´d still be aware of what used to be `Tom´ but defining myself by what is ultimately just a perspective would seem absurd. The brain would just be a symbol Tom has constructed to attempt to understand himself, which seems equally absurd.