Sorry for being 'quick on the draw' must have completely missed the part that said 2009, oh wait! Ha, nvm.
Now is an excellent time because this is the most support we have had in a while, because it pertains to the whole nation as opposed to just stoners.

There's a 2 guys 1 horse video!?!?! I gotta' be careful what I joke about. God We've spammed the fuck out of this thread.

That's not old-fashioned. My friend, it's convenience. :) Glass bongs come next for me.

By 'we', I know you mean 'you and only you'.

Sadly, there is.
And sadly, we have.

And sadly, I can't stop typing sadly.

For sad.
Young jeezy.
One love.
Shaneekwa.

I usually play devil's advocate on this topic because I believe it can be harmful to society, but I've already tired of doing so from before. Instead of summarizing points in a wall of text, just tell me one thing ..

Who is gonna sell this marijuana and how is the government gonna make money from it?

Not saying there are no answers, but they are usually weighed down with more problems than people are aware of. I'd like to see someone provide a good answer here in the spirit of debate. Maybe I'll get convinced too.

Tore, the government will find ways to make money off anything. Don't worry about them. They got it

But as far as the problems legal marijuana might cause in society? Well buddy, I say we just refer to our old buddy mr. comparison.

Marijuana will be extremely hard to tax, so they would have to come up with something. Foreign industries that sell marijuana would thrive on the american market and so would homegrowers.

What do you wanna compare it with?

Honestly, it'd be great if the government just didn't get involved at all and fuck everything up once again. Just like they did with love.

I can see how that's a sweet idea for users, but for society - that means you get all the harmful effects (social problems, health problems) of legalisation in society and no benefits.

What kind of social problems? Health problems I can probably figure out on my own, but if we're speaking in terms of health, what about tobacco and alcohol?

I dunno... every legal mind altering substance that causes damage to self, others, and property on a daily basis?

I don't want to get into that debate right now because it's after 3 in the AM and I'm about to crash... But if there's societal damage from marijuana, I'd like to see what that damage is if it's not created by the laws regulating it.

Agreed. I'm pooped.

But if you have some things that cause problems in society, does that mean you have to accept other things that are also harmful? To extrapolate merely to prove a point : If you allow murder, do you by default also have to allow rape?

Furthermore, there's a backside to tobacco and alcohol in that they make large piles of money for the government because they are taxed. Politically, that makes them somewhat more acceptable.

The harmful effects of marijuana are basically everything which is negative. Health is the easiest to point the finger at, I think purely statistically, marijuana smokers have a 6 times higher likelyhood of becoming schizophrenic. Other negative effects could come from children growing up with parents who smoke all the time (that's a social problem) to traffic accidents caused by people being stoned out of their minds while driving.

Serious time for me is over for the night. I'll get you back tomorrow. Good points, but we've a date here tomorrow, friend.

The health issue is a political front disguising the fact that lobbyist from giant chemical corporations like Dupont have been doing whatever they can since the whole Reefer Madness propaganda scare tactic to prevent mass market hemp paper and textile production from putting them out of business.

I'll discuss it anytime, though I'll say for now that there are lots of problems with legalizing marijuana that makes it unlikely to gain support with politicians. That's why marijuana is not legalized today and why Obama has a chuckle when it's mentioned. Politicians should be aware of these problems because they have to think for society while regular users are usually not aware because their take on it is more self-centered.

edit :

Marijuana is a drug - it alters the way you think and the way your mind work. Most things that do are potentially detrimental to health. If there were no negative effects with marijuana, I'd say legalize. I don't believe it's harmless and I don't believe it's a conspiracy.

I could honestly care less if it's legalized for recreational consumption, but as a renewable resource; That's another story.

Hey now, don't you forget they're we're ALL self-centered. With or without the high. You know, I have no problem discussing with you, but I'm curious. Are you aware of all the beneficial elements of marijuana?

I'm aware of it's benefits for example as medicine (pain reliever) or the benefits of hemp (which is legal). Both of those uses should be (and are I guess?) legal.

edit :

About the self-centered thing, if something is detrimental to society - that means it will be detrimental to you as well, so you can extrapolate your thinking to include society also for selfish motives .. ;)

(I guess your point is that we're all selfish)

Considering the kind of outrageous propaganda that used to be put out by the administrations in the 60's and 70's, I can't understand why you'd place so much credibility on a political agenda regarding marijuana laws unless you actually took that stance at face value.
Any functioning human with an eye for differentiating between societal ailments can easily tell you that marijuana, even in its current status, is by FAR the least of societies worries. And actually, the mere fact of its illegality raises the crime rate.
It goes on and on man.

I do want to discuss this with you completely, but I'm about to turn in for the night.

I look forward to chatting again brotha.

You see, they don't need to legalize marijuana to use it as a renewable resource. Just as all other alternative resources that are readily available, it's here now and we have an abundance of it. A drastic change like this would involve a lot of rich guys to rewire the scheme or lose a lot of money.

Meh I just saw that. I'll stop here.

I'm from Norway where I wouldn't say we get exposed to a lot of anti-marijuana propaganda. People care generally little about it, but I'd still say it's relatively common knowledge that there are negative effects to it. I'm saying this because it looks like you believe that everything negative about it is being produced by some american propaganda machine and while you as americans should know much more about that than I do, I still don't agree that marijuana is harmless.

Legalizing marijuana might not lead to a decrease in marijuana related crimes. It could lead to an increase. For example it might become illegal to drive under the influence (in some cases, it most definetly should be), so those crimes should be higher. If marijuana was taxed which is the only feasible way to get something (money) from it, homegrowing for selling should be illegal because they feed the black market and so that would likely still be illegal .. and homegrowing and selling being so simple, that could lead to a lot of marijuana crimes.

Medicinally, it's not just a pain reliever. I use it for insomnia, relaxation, creativity (sometimes), cramps, and headaches. Yes, hemp is legal, but marijuana's terrible reputation has forever tainted hemp usage. I mentioned earlier in the thread that hemp seeds are a super food. They have every essential amino acid for you. This include SEVEN amino acids that are extremely rare or nonexistent in other food groups, not to mention other seeds, and your body can't make these amino acids on it's own. Sure, it's legal, but there are a certain group of ignorant people who will steer clear of this scene no matter how healthy it's proven to be. As for medicinal smoke, I think it's a great step so far, but if it's only available in SOME states. Does that mean grandpas gotta fly to Cali everytime he needs to re-up? Also, if you compare marijuana to the prescription pills tossed at us (a lot of whom are children) today, which is healthier? What are the statistics on kids overdosing on marijuana? What are the statistics of drunk-driving vs. high-driving? You know, fuck stats. It's a crock of shit anyway. Just take a look at your own community and tell me.

Getting carried away, I know, but I've got to finish answering you! :)

Lastly, please don't tell me I am a detriment to the society because I get high when there are human traffickers, pedophiles and politicians still existent in our society. Yes, I get high, but don't clump me up in the nonproductive, lazy stoner category. Basically, what I'm tryin' to say is I get shit done, yo. ;)

And yes, my point is that we are all selfish. I'm pretty sure I was clear on that. I'm actually kind of confused on what you said about it. Since when does being selfish include others? Also, do you ever think that it could be the anti-marijuana activists that are being selfish? I'm not asking for the government to sell dime bags to pregnant women and 5 year olds. I just want freedom to smoke a joint in my front yard if I desire. I want more access to alternative ways of consuming marijuana rather than just smoking it. I don't want to get arrested for a petty nickle bag and be forced to go to church (yes, this really happened). ****, I just wanna kick back, blaze and listen to some good tunes.

Alright, alright I'm done. :D

When I was a teenager if I wanted to buy beer I either needed a fake ID or a friend who's over 21 to buy it for me. If I wanted to buy marijuana I made a phone call and it was delivered to my house.
There is no problem with weed being readily available due to it being illegal. Whoever wants it gets it fairly easily. Making it legal would actually decrease its availabilityin this country, because it's distribution would be regulated, and there's not a marijuana dealer/grower in this country who would want to go through the trouble to to even try to compete with the prices that the gov't would be able to sell it for even with a substantial tax. Does marijuana cause societal and health related problems? Sure, but its criminalization has done nothing to rectify the problems associated w/ its use, and legalization w/ Gov't regulation of distribution would actually cause those problem's to decrease.

There are negative effects to alcohol yet it's legal. Tobacco is about as bad. However marijuana could have some real medical benefits. I think it should be available for those people. As far as everyone else goes, is it not hard to get a hold of? Here I can pick it up from anyone really. Illegal or not.

Vanillah, if I move to N.Z., I'm shacking up with you.

edit: Just to watch you pick up a bag "from anywhere". wink

SATCHMO, the growers who come to your doorstep would also still most likely be criminals because they would be part of a black market. The thread is about the possibility of taxation and as such, in such a "legalized society" the war on drugs would simply shift and become a war on homegrowers.

Perhaps less interesting for you guys, there's also the problem of wether or not America should support foreign drug industries. Many of these deal in other shady businesses and are troublesome for many countries. Opening up a market to them is going to support those businesses. If America closes the market to them, they're still gonna be present on the black market.

edit :

I've already replied to this ;) I had two points. The first is so what about alcohol and tobacco? If we have some harmful things in society, does that by default mean we have to allow more? Secondly, alcohol and tobacco are easily taxed something marijuana is not and so the government makes a lot of money from them.

Im not sure if many of you noticed, but many of the questions asked were answered in the link I provided. Not saying its valid information, but it is a good idea, hence where would the gov gain profit from its legalization and its availability, So check out that link, maybe it was just mistaken for an underlined paragraph.

Also, there are links at the bottom of that page which answer a million more questions here. Detrimental effects on health (Tore)

I've read it now and it seems the article agrees on several points I've made here and earlier.

Summarized here is my point that in order for the government to make money off marijuana, they have to fight the homegrowers - here called entrepreneurs. I wrote the war on drugs would simply shift to a war on homegrowers and so you would still spend money on marijuana related crimes .. The article seems to agree.

Here the point is basically made again .. The article doesn't really seem really convinced either way, but it shows perhaps a tendency to believe that government might make money despite these problems. I don't agree with them because I can think of more problems than those that are pointed out in this article.

For example they do not mention foreign drug industries which should also be a concern.

I say yes to more harmful things, the way I see it were not getting any better as a society, Shows on MTV about trannys, porn in general, gambling.
Personally, I have high blood pressure, Im pretty much a real d-bag outside of the internet (might even be on internet as well) I have anxiety and countless other issues, my point is marijuana makes it all go away, and is less dependant upon compared to prescribed legal drugs. I know this is a selfish standpoint, but its only a minute part of the arguement. When I am high, I love life, enjoy my favorite things (musid, food etc...) ten times more. Im a way better driver because It takes alot of concentration just to make it up to the speed limit.

Yeah thats why I pointed it out to you, its fairly non-biased and supports great point of either side. Im not totally sold on the idea of legalization, especially after they stated that national quantity could be regulated by increase in taxes, which would eventually lead right back to 'black market growers' having lower prices and so on.

I'm not against marijuana on an individual level at all, I just don't think legalization will benefit society overall. It's a very grey zone issue with arguments leaning one way or the other and I feel I base my opinion on the sum of those arguments. Perhaps important to consumers, as you pointed out Thrice, all users today are getting marijuana off the illegal black market which may even be cheaper for them than if it gets legalized. There's no tax now, but in a legalized society there will be of course.

I don't have anything against people who smoke .. In other words, I'm not trying to make you feel bad, 333 :D

You didn't make me feel bad. This is a discussion. That means we both agree to agree or disagree. I've said what I've had to say about it for right now. I'm slightly annoyed, yes. Mostly at the fact that this thread is limited to only the economical aspect of the whole situation. I'm more focused on the societal, global, environmental and health aspect of it than the economic benefits. I suppose our views not only differentiate in the aspect of legalization of marijuana, but the monetary system as well. Oh, well. The sun is going up. Time for me to go down. (I keep saying that, huh?)

I know the feeling :D

I'm pleasantly surprised by this thread. So far, it is dealing with economics which is exactly spot on the topic. I would expect such a discussion to get more bogged down by arguments on health effects which I've already done many times before so this is refreshing.

To everyone else - I think in order to get people to really discuss the core of the legilization issue as presented in the article, the real question should be : Marijuana, can you tax it?

In answering that, it will become appearant (as it's made in the article) that there are significant problems to overcome. However, if you think that it can overcome those problems with a net gain to society, then you can perhaps start thinking about legalization.

What if we stripped it of all economical ties and treat it like the real weeds? We potheads could just take over landscaping. :D I think we're getting somewhere now ...

I agree, Im glad it has gone the way it has, for thats what I intended, and rarely does it follow the intended path, but Im sure when I check back after I wake up it will be filled with pointless 'bumper stickers' and such. I think the overall debate of this topic is old news and there is not much that has not been stated numerous times. I enjoy focusing on this point of view, yet still adding bits and pieces of related info (health affects etc...) You should change your custom title to The Great Debator (sp?) because I am always impressed with your opposing views, and sometimes you even seem to sway my strong opinions towards a more middle ground with your statements.

No

Just to irritate potheads because they irritate the shit out of me.

No, Hemp that does not contain THC is legal.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...na/6svwv2c.jpg


They are way ahead of everybody.



O and i don't smoke weed. Pot heads annoy me. They say s*it liek this.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/in...-Marijuana.jpg