Is it just me, or does heaven sound like a really horrible place?

~~The Unfan~~ · 09-20-2009, 08:41 PM

There's a first time for everything.

~~CAPTAIN CAVEMAN~~ · 09-20-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unfan

There's a first time for everything.

not for that, unfan... not for that

Neapolitan · 09-20-2009, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo boo

This is retarded, no really it is.

If there's so many religions that claim to know the truth, then there's no reason to believe any single one of them actually does.

What proof is there that Christians are right and Muslims are not? None, and vice versa. It's all about faith, and in that sense Dali is right, if you believe in Jesus simply through blind faith, then you have no right to criticize other religions for taking the same leap of faith, and when Christians actually try to debunk another religion using "facts" it just makes them look retarded.

Every religion has some incircumstancial evidence that obviously convinces some people that it's the truth. And just because two things contradict each other dosen't automatically mean one side is right and one is wrong, both could easly be right or both could easly be wrong.

In other words, the world isn't black and white.

IF a theist says there is a God
and athiest says there is not God
when you examine both satements both can not be true and both can not be false. One has to be true and the other false.
So it can not come down to the act of believing, or particiapating in a religion,
what is the most important, it is is the statement True, does the statement contain Truth. Not that the person a tremedous amount of faith in their religion, so they can believe in anything, true or not.

Saying the "amount of faith in their religion" is the most important or the common denominator is the wrong way of looking at spirituality or the search for Truth. Say you saw a friend studying and you asked him what was he doing he say he;s studying History, you said that is nice, then he says well I have a big Math Test tomorrow and I am cramming. Wouldn't you be a little confussed,so you asked him "why are you studying History instead of Math?" he said "As long as I am study, that is all that matters."

Just having a belief, just having a faith, just having a religion is more important then believing in what is true or what is Truth, that is the same as study anything for the sake of studying. We live in a time of religious Relativism, and that confusses more people then anything else, and it stops philosophical discussions about religion. Religious Relativism is the same a s religious tolerance, being tolerant of another persons religion. Having a belief, having a faith, having a religion should be respected, it's part of being human.

boo boo · 09-20-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

IF a theist says there is a God
and athiest says there is not God
when you examine both satements both can not be true and both can not be false. One has to be true and the other false.
So it can not come down to the act of believing, or particiapating in a religion,
what is the most important, it is is the statement True, does the statement contain Truth. Not that the person a tremedous amount of faith in their religion, so they can believe in anything, true or not.

Saying the "amount of faith in their religion" is the most important or the common denominator is the wrong way of looking at spirituality or the search for Truth. Say you saw a friend studying and you asked him what was he doing he say he;s studying History, you said that is nice, then he says well I have a big Math Test tomorrow and I am cramming. Wouldn't you be a little confussed,so you asked him "why are you studying History instead of Math?" he said "As long as I am study, that is all that matters."

Just having a belief, just having a faith, just having a religion is more important then believing in what is true or what is Truth, that is the same as study anything for the sake of studying. We live in a time of religious Relativism, and that confusses more people then anything else, and it stops philosophical discussions about religion. Religious Relativism is the same a s religious tolerance, being tolerant of another persons religion. Having a belief, having a faith, having a religion should be respected, it's part of being human.

You couldn't be more wrong. There is NO way to find the real truth. For every religion, it's just faith and nothing else. That means no religion has more validity than another, not one.

Most of what you said has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

Christianity and Islalm may have different ideals of god and the afterlife, but they would be both wrong if there is no god or afterlife.

~~The Unfan~~ · 09-20-2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Say you saw a friend studying and you asked him what was he doing he say he;s studying History, you said that is nice, then he says well I have a big Math Test tomorrow and I am cramming. Wouldn't you be a little confussed,so you asked him "why are you studying History instead of Math?" he said "As long as I am study, that is all that matters."

Thank God it isn't an English test.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 09-20-2009, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo boo

This is retarded, no really it is.

If there's so many religions that claim to know the truth, then there's no reason to believe any single one of them actually does.

What proof is there that Christians are right and Muslims are not? None, and vice versa. It's all about faith, and in that sense Dali is right, if you believe in Jesus simply through blind faith, then you have no right to criticize other religions for taking the same leap of faith, and when Christians actually try to debunk another religion using "facts" it just makes them look retarded.

Every religion has some incircumstancial evidence that obviously convinces some people that it's the truth. And just because two things contradict each other dosen't automatically mean one side is right and one is wrong, both could easly be right or both could easly be wrong.

In other words, the world isn't black and white.

Boo boo I'm impressed with your responses. I think you're merely bringing out ideas rather than being judgemental towards Christians. And you're right, every religion thinks it's right, and if you do have faith in one of them you still need to respect that their are others that feel differently. Atheists also need to respect the fact that others are going to believe whether they like it or not.

Musliums believe in some elements of Christianity, such as the fact that God sent Jesus as a messenger to earth, however for them the last prophet on earth was Muhammad who came after him to provide the Kuran and be the final faith for the world to follow. Obviously it's more complicated than that, but I wanted to highlight that not all religions are completely different from each other. Some things have the same moral values but are carried out differently.

OceanAndSilence · 09-21-2009, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo boo

You couldn't be more wrong. There is NO way to find the real truth.

that won't stop people believing or attempting to find the truth. if what you say is correct, even science won't find the truth; it only really explains the "how" and not the fundamental "whys" (the crux of truth) of creation.

what i dislike more than a religious person, is a person who attacks a religion. you said it yourself; there's no way to find the real truth. since we know that, what is the point in arguing the intricacies of a supernatural entity? what truth do you know that they don't, and how do you know that you are correct? there's nothing "wrong" with religion, only how people misinterpret, misconstrue, and corrupt them.

i know many religious people from multiple doctrines, and i'm happy for them to believe what they want, because no one else in the world knows any better than they do. i know people who i thought were going down the tormented path of drugs 'n' ****, only to miraculously turn around and become fastidiously religious, and i can say their life has turned out much better because of it.

ultimately, there is an afterlife, or there isn't. those are the only two options. believe what you want and follow that path that you'll think will get you to either one.

for the record, i'm agnostic. i believe in A god, however i don't claim to know if any one doctrine is correct. i will make my decisions based on my own experiences, and that is where i am right now. if it changes in the future, so be it.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 09-21-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OceanAndSilence

that won't stop people believing or attempting to find the truth. if what you say is correct, even science won't find the truth; it only really explains the "how" and not the fundamental "whys" (the crux of truth) of creation.

what i dislike more than a religious person, is a person who attacks a religion. you said it yourself; there's no way to find the real truth. since we know that, what is the point in arguing the intricacies of a supernatural entity? what truth do you know that they don't, and how do you know that you are correct? there's nothing "wrong" with religion, only how people misinterpret, misconstrue, and corrupt them.

i know many religious people from multiple doctrines, and i'm happy for them to believe what they want, because no one else in the world knows any better than they do. i know people who i thought were going down the tormented path of drugs 'n' ****, only to miraculously turn around and become fastidiously religious, and i can say their life has turned out much better because of it.

ultimately, there is an afterlife, or there isn't. those are the only two options. believe what you want and follow that path that you'll think will get you to either one.

for the record, i'm agnostic. i believe in A god, however i don't claim to know if any one doctrine is correct. i will make my decisions based on my own experiences, and that is where i am right now. if it changes in the future, so be it.

You are my favourite poster right now. Really good points there. I think that everyone needs to keep their minds open, whether they believe or not.

Freebase Dali · 09-21-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

If one believe 2+2=4,
one is not self-damning and ignorant because someone else believes 2+2=5.

If there are two statements that a claimed to be true but contradict each other, one has to be false.

You do realize that I wasn't creating a Boolean variable in my statement, right?
I'm talking about the dynamic between different doctrines, not the question of the existence of a god (in the sense of being the creator of existence) as being true/false.

You can certainly make a statement that one, or all, religious doctrines are wrong... or right.. Or just plain irrelevant. That part has nothing to do with a logical argument, and everything to do with a belief.

The point I was trying to make is that if you have a number of beliefs that in some ways contradict each other, the fallacy is that assuming that one MUST be correct/incorrect in comparison to the others, when in fact, one does not, due to the infinite possible variables between them.

The existence of a creator in no way relies on the accuracy of a doctrine.

boo boo · 09-21-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla

Boo boo I'm impressed with your responses. I think you're merely bringing out ideas rather than being judgemental towards Christians. And you're right, every religion thinks it's right, and if you do have faith in one of them you still need to respect that their are others that feel differently. Atheists also need to respect the fact that others are going to believe whether they like it or not.

Musliums believe in some elements of Christianity, such as the fact that God sent Jesus as a messenger to earth, however for them the last prophet on earth was Muhammad who came after him to provide the Kuran and be the final faith for the world to follow. Obviously it's more complicated than that, but I wanted to highlight that not all religions are completely different from each other. Some things have the same moral values but are carried out differently.

Certain Christian ideals really disturb me but I don't have anything against Christians as individuals unless they are in your face about it, and unfortunately from my own personal experience a lot of them are.

But Atheists can be the same way, and a lot of them are.

Anyway, even if you said that between Christianity and Isalm ONE of them has to be right, then you're opening up a new can of worms, because then what version of Christianity would be right?

09-20-2009, 08:41 PM	#81 (permalink)
~~The Unfan~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Methville Posts: 2,116	There's a first time for everything.