The BNP
 

Obviously this thread is mainly for MB's British users, or anyone else in the world who has caught on to this rising right-wing political party.

Nick Griffin, the head of the BNP, opposes the extreme immigration happening in England and the fact that during times of recession, jobs are not going to English people. He appeared on Question Time this week, and the BBC is being criticised by many as setting him up by being particularly hostile with him and not letting him air his views in a civil way. The panel were particularly aggressive, and his answers to questions were often dismissed.

Seeing as it is the burning topic, and an issue I am quite conflicted over, what are all your thoughts?

I was extremely disappointed in it.

He really could have been exposed as a phoney with no workable policies.

But no, we get a panel with a token Muslim, a token black woman, an audience full of annoying whooping & hollering leftie students and one of the most unpopular Labour politicians ever all going for cheap point scoring by mentioning the World War 2 & immigration every few seconds, It was embarrassing. We already know he's a racist for fuck sake, that's why he's the leader of the fucking BNP.

In fact I would say Griffin got the best line of the night when he asked Straw what his grandfather did during the war.

Other than that Griffin was useless but he could have been so exposed much better than he was.

A wasted opportunity.

Nick "Adolf Brent" Griffin was set up before he even had the chance to open his mouth.
The pre-prepared rhetoric the panel blasted him with from the outset, meant Griffin was never going to be able to dig his own grave. Which in my opinion was essential.
All they had to do was sit back and allow this idiot to spout his doctrine first and then dismantle his policies and ideologies.
What we got instead was an all out attack on the BNP, when what we should have got was the total destruction of Griffin and his thinly disguised please the public policies and exposed him, to those who are unsure, for the racist bigot he really is...once and for all.

No surprise then that the latest polls show he was thought to have been treated unfairly and that one in five Britons would now consider voting BNP.

Like Urban said. "A wasted opportunity".
And one that has probably done more harm than good.

Everytime Griffin opened his mouth he said something totally idiotic.

They should have just had a normal show, let him speak freely & hang himself.

What you have to realise is that the rise of the BNP is on the back of the current Labour governments seemingly reluctant stance on stemming the now ridiculous tide of immigration into this country.

Ordinary, non racist citizens are now considering voting BNP because this issue is of national and economic importance.

Stemming the tide of immigration is one thing, but a Britain run by the BNP would soon turn into a pre war nazi Germany.

My opinion is this... that the first mainstream political party to make a sensible stance on the issue of immigration and make it a primary part of their manifesto for the next election, will win by a landslide.

No need for the BNP.

Exactly. It makes me wonder how much of it was down to shifting the spotlight away from their own inadequate political cock ups.

Nobody that isn't harbouring some deep prejudices would vote BNP in their right mind, no matter how lax the major parties are. This was a huge mistake. Xenophobia is a proud British trait, you encounter it everywhere, and in times of perceived desperation such as these (thanks, media) the politically ignorant probably are looking at the BNP as an option, that's how fucking blind people can be.
I totally agree, Straw's inability to appease on immigration probably handed them thousands of votes, it's in the incompetent hands of Brown and Cameron to stem the unstoppable tide of brown people now...
Worst that will happen is the BNP gaining a seat or two, thank christ we don't have proportional representation

I never cease to be amazed at the amount of truly stupid people that there are out there.
Remember...we live in a world where Bananarama got to number 1 in the charts and George Bush was the president of the United States!

Griffin's BNP are setting out their stall to show an acceptable face to the general public.
The BNP has a certain amount of political credibility now too. At the very least it has the potential to make changes and ones that the voter will be guaranteed to be carried out to the letter should they get in.
Add the Brits xenophobia to our distrust and loathing of change that we're also famous for (ie; more bloody foreigners) and it would be wise not to underestimate the general public on the issue of immigration in the current climate, or their wisdom on who they may vote for.

i never thought we'd end up seriously discussing the potential of the BNP, it's madness, but you've also got the ever-widening gulf between rich and poor in this country, as has been shown the recession has done little to change this and yeah... i keep my ear to the ground and still feel more disconnected from mainstream politics than ever and fully intend to throw my vote away on the Greens, Urban would be keen to write me off as a student leftie no doubt; but it's that poverty gap that this wolf in sheep's clothing is pretending he's going to bridge, at a time when anybody living in poverty feels like they're being ignored... you're spot on, it would be National Socialism all over again. Same old bullshit

The BBC should never have had him on the show. It should absolutely refuse to give a voice to racist thugs.

He also opposes blacks, asians, muslims, ***s, Jews (when he thinks he can get away with it) and proposes riots, beatings and general violent forms of civil disobedience as viable things for the party to be spending it's time doing. Lets not forget that anything Griffin says that sounds reasonable is a façade to win support of the moderate undecided and what he says when he doesn't realise there's a camera on him proves time and time again to be a completely different story.

Yes, because he was spouting shit. Anything that came out of his mouth was either a total lie in an attempt to contradict something he'd previously said that would damage his reputation, or a completely stupid statement, e.g. his claim of the British people and their apparent Caucasian genotype, while sat next to a woman from the British Museum who had the fun of explaining where we genetically all come from (that is to say, Africa).

I also adore that he keeps on yammering on that his father was in the RAF in the second world war, ergo he is not a Nazi. Ignoring the fact that he is not his father, and that plainly nobody is suggesting that he wants to start the Third Reich when they call him a Nazi ...

I understand that the BNP are just thinly-veiled racists, and that as they have been propelled into the limelight they have had to alter their policies in order to look more acceptable and less like the National Front. I have a couple of aqquaintances who vote BNP and yes, they are racists. As I have previously mentioned on these boards, I understand that being an instigator of racism is both ignorant and neanderthalic, but the shape Britain is in recently those in support of the BNP shouldn't necessarily be written off as racists. There is just nowhere else to turn to.

The British public have become disillusioned and I completely agree with the belief that our British Identity is slipping between our fingers. However, any opposing argument against immigration appears to immediately be deemed as racism, and it is this oppression and censorship that is making people harbour racist feelings.

On a semi-seperate note, I find it funny that when annoyance is directed at the influx of Polish into our country it isn't deemed as racism, because they are white.

It is true that this is the reason people believe of themselves, it is untrue that this is the reality of the situation. We live in a Democracy, if no political party represents your views you are quite free to start a new one. At the same time there's a much larger party variety than the core three, even turning to UKIP would be a (marginal) step up from the BNP. The problem is the BNP are loud and stupid, which is a marvellous combination for the uneducated voting masses. Sometimes I wonder Plato wasn't right about the Philosopher Kings.

What is British Identity? If we are losing it, it must be a definable and distinguished ideal or set of characteristics which is unanimously held by those who can trace their heritage through generations of solely UK living forefathers (because there are obviously so many of those.)

Have you woken up one morning with your hand missing because the day before you stole an apple? Have you been banned from your football chants because the only phrase you should use is "Allahu Akbar"?

No, people are harbouring racist feelings because (as it has been forever throughout history) during an economic down turn and times of high unemployment scape-goating is used to blame whichever social group is new or alien to the public majority. Prior to the 1940s the common punching bag for this throughout the centuries was the Jews. The oppression and censorship regarding the outcry is new as a result of shock of post WW2 cultural reforms, but historically is by no means the cause.

Because it's xenophobia, not racism. Racism is based upon race; Polish are not exceptionally racially distinct, the difference comes from national identity, culture, language etc.

fuck british identity, nobody here gives a **** about the next guy until it comes time to project the hate or protect their wage slips
the way Polish are treated, especially considering the UK's strong ties with the country is certainly considered discrimanatory by me, and i'd imagine most people in this country of polish-british descent. If you want to blame someone for immigration, as we've said, blame the government and don't moan when there's a shortage of qualified doctors and people to mop up your friday night puke

I think what I have said has been taken out of context - I am not a BNP supporter. I was just stating that it is sort of reasonable that some people might consider the BNP as the only place to turn to.

I am not a very political man and I am not very well-educated on current states of affairs, but even without being entirely clued up I notice when something is affecting me personally and the people around me. Being a late teenager, I am too young to look at the broader picture, but I have my own perception of what is going on around me and the way that immigration is affecting England and the way it has affected England. Luckily I am one of the well-educated youth that recognises racism as ignorant - some others my age are not as fortunate as me.

It needs to be recognised that racism is particularly prominent within youth culture, and it happens from all angles, not just whites against blacks/asians. The amount of violence I have seen because of race hate is sickening, and considering my generation will soon be running the 'United' Kingdom, it will only get worse.

I get really really angry whenever the BNP comes up. :mad:
I can't say much else then **** em'. They are a complete disgrace to Britain, ****ing nazis in disguise.

I hate them, and if they ever get to put a word in, Britain will be destroyed. Which is something I would be very sad to see.

But I have no problem with them putting out their platform on TV, Britain is a democracy, and there is freedom of speech. So regardless of how crazy their politics are, they should be allowed to talk about them in public. Makes them easier to shout at as well :). Wish I had been in that studio..

I don't understand how any party that belives in an indigneous people can flourish in Britiain, when anyone with even the slightest knowledge of history will know that the "indigenous" British themselves are the result of millenia of intermarriage,mass immigration and colonisation-first by Celts(Irish and French),Romans(Mediterreanean),Anglo-Saxons(Germans),Vikings,Normans(French and Norse),Irish again in the 19th and 20th century,and later Asians,West Indians and Africans in the mid-to-late 20th and 21st.

And to those who point out they are simply reflecting the alienated, I reply that although these people may be alienated,it does not give a party who believe that the Republic Of Ireland should be forced back into Union any degree of credibilty.

If this is true, the BNP are bigger idiots than I gave them credit for.

no no i wasn't implying you are a BNP supporter, i'm just not a big fan or borders, cultural or otherwise. I find (non-extremist) patriotism hypocritical in today's society, it's a crutch used by some people when their religion is the purchase. If you put your balls on the line in nineteen thurdy nine then you can bray on about the union jack all you like, however. See you on the otherside you lucky bastards.
'Give me convenience or give me death', the collective whole/fellow human being ultimately fits nowhere in the modern conception of democracy

this issue is consistently raised with them and came up on the QT program, of course they have nothing to respond with. Priceless comedy

I completely disagree with whoever it was that said the BBC should not have allowed Nick Griffin the airtime, i think it's only right that he was allowed to be there and to voice his opinions.

I also recognise that this didn't really happen, which was disappointing. Maybe im giving people too much credit but i believe that if he had been given the freedom to say what he wanted to say and to present his policies and his beliefs without being blocked, interrupted, ridiculed and having what must have been a carefully selected panel and audience there solely to tear him to pieces that surely he would have been able to dig his own grave and ultimately expose the BNP for what they are to those who may not really understand or who are on the fence? He's not exactly the best public speaker, is he?

That line about Jack Straw's father being locked up for refusing to fight the nazi's while his was in the RAF was priceless. That was arguably the most laughably poor pissing contest i have ever seen and i fail to see its relevance. I didn't think grown men lowered themselves to the old "my dad could beat up your dad" shit you would hear in primary school, which is essentially what it was as far as im concerned.

to the nationalist bigots all over the country upon whose vote he will count, that kind of puerile accusation would be relevant, as you heard they have appropriated churchill as their role model, the rationing era was a time of core British values or some bull**** to them
these people are operating in the same vacuum as ever, and i disagree that Griffin didn't get to hang himself on that show - between all the audience persecution he said plenty! Yes, those were actually his policies! It was a debate, and excluding the jeering, he lost to reason.
Giving him any more floor time with a sympathetic Burnley audience or something would have been dangerous, people are f*cking impressionable,

And that's why it would have been more effective against his party had he been given a fair opportunity.
There is however an argument that to give these people a voice in any media whatsoever is a dangerous president to set.
After all, any publicity is good publicity and bad publicity to the kind of people they're hoping to attract is an attractive proposition to their mindset.
The Neanderthalic nationalist bigots wallow is this kind of shit.

I still think though, that the majority of people in Britain are still bright enough and right minded enough to make up their own minds, given enough information.
Allowing the BNP to humiliate themselves would have been far more valuable than the barbed remarks thrown Griffin's way.

mojopunk...about the 'your Dad's a coward and mine was in the RAF' jibe.
It's interesting to wonder who's father is the prouder of the two.
The conscientious objector of a father of the high ranking government politician, or the fascist freedom fighting RAF serviceman of the fascist politician.

It's really disconcerting to see the ammount of BNP supporters on Youtube. Trying to get into a good debate with them is like shouting at a brick wall.

I know there are loads of morons on youtube but c'mon that just takes the biscuit.

On the subject of Questiontime I totally agree with everything that's been said. What a wasted opportunity.

They fully accept this, they just don`t like the mass immigration of non-whites into the country from the ex-colonies. They seem to forget, that these people came in, to do jobs that none of the so called indigenous population of the time didn`t want to do.

Republic of Ireland despite not being part of the UK is still part of the British Isles, this is how their warped logic works. Its the same type of logic that Nazi Germany used, in incorporating German speaking peoples into an expanding Germany at the time.

People go on about the Poles but they are now EU citizens, so they are no longer immigrants from a technical point of view.

For wages they wouldn't work for too.Even in this recession,the Poles are holding on to their jobs for the simple reason they're better employees then local workers who refused them when they had the chance.

Wherever you go in the EU its the same. The locally born people won`t do the jobs that they deem inferior either and certainly not for the low wages that the immigrants are paid, at times the wages that immigrants are paid are not as bad as some make out, admittedly the hours they work can be long.

When there`s a recession such as now and the locals are losing their jobs, they start crying for blood about how immigrants are nicking all the jobs etc....its all quite pathetic really. They don`t seem to realize, that if they lowered their standard of living and cut out the excesses (excessive spending) they too could also survive on the wages that many immigrants are paid, then there would be no need to bring immigrants over in the first place.

Is the immigration really that big? The right-wing populists in this country at least always tend to vastly exaggerate the number of annual non-European immigrants.

It`s no bigger than many other similiar EU countries and in some cases smaller countries such as Sweden (population wise) take in more immigrants legal or non-legal per % of the population than the UK anyway, that is certainly based on stats that I saw some time ago. Countries like Canada and Australia take in far more immigrants than the EU anyway, so the right wingers in the UK tend to greatly exagerrate this to garner support, the whole thing is then made worse when rags like the Daily Mail also harper on about the same thing.

Its also been shown, that for the amount of people that come into the UK, a similiar amount leave as well. The amount of Brits that move overseas is a huge amount anually.

By the way, I just saw that you were based in Sweden, is my example of using Sweden correct?

Well, the problem isn't the total amount of refugees and immigrants, but the distribution of their settlement within the country. When it comes to immigrants, they, quite naturally, have a tendency to settle where their relatives live, which is primarily in the suburbs the big cities. When it comes to refugees, each municipality chooses how many to accept. This has let to a situation where virtually none of the rural municipalities accept any refugees. The effect of both these trends is that the suburbs of the big cities (primarily Stockholm, Göteborg and Malmö) have a very large degree of immigrants, many of whom rarely or never leave their neighbourhood. Obviously, in a situation like that, integration is extremely difficult.

To be honest the distribution in the main cities is the same as in most countries as most immigrants go to where they have the own kind, family or work. Rural UK is probably no different to rural Sweden in this respect. Saying that though, there are large parts of the UK without too many immigrants (South West, East Anglia, large parts of Wales and Scotland etc) I`d be very hard to think of a country where recent waves of immigrants have integrated, it normally takes a generation or two for this to happen.

The way i see it, Britain is a democracy, if the BNP were forbidden to voice their views on public television then that, my friends, is meandering into the realms of fascism.

Hopefully most citizens of the UK are intelligent enough to see through the thinly veiled aura of public decency the BNP employs and recognise them for what they are, racists.

The problem i think lies with the working class who, in times of financial struggle, will naturally look for a scapegoat to explain their troubles. I'm from a working class family, and unfortunately my mother voted BNP at the last local elections. Now, i can categorically state that she is not a racist at all. She is a decent, intelligent woman who respects other cultures and ethnicities. I think it was a case of simply having nowhere else to turn. She's well aware of the failings of mainstream politics and the quagmire they've left our country in, and naively she looked at the immigration policies of the BNP and identified them as the only feesable solution to an, at the time, serious problem for her.

I personally do not vote. I appreciate the troubles our forefathers went to make our country a democracy, but any vote i submitted would be a wasted one - and i see no sense in that at all.