Nationalism

**Janszoon** · 11-07-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnard17

United Nations is misnamed. The correct name for it would be United States. Wanna guess why they didn't choose that?

Because it wouldn't make sense?

Barnard17 · 11-07-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Because it wouldn't make sense?

There are 50 member states within the United States already. It's existence also pre-dates that of the United Nations by 169 years. I'm pretty sure you've heard of it.

**Janszoon** · 11-07-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnard17

There are 50 member states within the United States already. It's existence also pre-dates that of the United Nations by 169 years. I'm pretty sure you've heard of it.

Yes and several other of the world's largest countries are divided into states as well so using the word "states" for the UN wouldn't make sense to huge numbers of the global population.

Barnard17 · 11-07-2009, 06:59 PM

And some of the smaller countries, such as Belgium, which contains two distinct national identities: the Flemish and the French speaking. Geographically these two nationalities are quite polarised and form separate federated states within the sovereign state of Belgium. These are states that are members of a Federal Union; for whatever reason they view it as more beneficial to retain a certain degree of self-governance while also committing a significant portion of their ability to govern and decisions relevant to a central federal government. The collective of which is referred to as a sovereign state an entity which has it's own Government, maintains borders and is usually recognised by other sovereign states as being independent. The UN is a committee populated by member sovereign states. It was called the UN because the US was already in the common lexicon as referring to the United States of America but that doesn't make nation the "correct" term for use, hell look at the UN Charter where membership is only open to states, not nations.

Not that I especially enjoy referring to wikipedia when I could be Harvard referencing; quoting blocks of textbooks (and I mean BLOCKS) and typing up lecture notes the relevant pages are pretty good at giving a brief but correct overview.
Nation State. The nation-state is a certain form of state that derives its political legitimacy from serving as a sovereign entity for a nation as a sovereign territorial unit.
Sovereign State. A sovereign state, commonly simply referred to as a state, is a political association with effective internal and external sovereignty over a geographic area and population which is not dependent on, or subject to any other power or state.
...
In casual usage, the terms "country", "nation", and "state" are often used as if they were synonymous; but in a more strict usage they can be distinguished:

* Nation denotes a people who are believed to or deemed to share common customs, origins, and history. However, the adjectives national and international also refer to matters pertaining to what are strictly sovereign states, as in national capital, international law.

* State refers to the set of governing and supportive institutions that have sovereignty over a definite territory and population.

Federated State. A federated state, commonly simply referred to as a state, is a territorial and constitutional community forming part of a federal union.[1] Such states differ from sovereign states, in that they have transferred a portion of their sovereign powers to a federal government.[2] A federated state holds administrative jurisdiction over a defined geographic territory and is a form of regional government.
Nation. A nation is a body of people who share a real or imagined common history, culture, language or ethnic origin.

You will excuse me if I defer faith in the definition to the PhDs teaching me.

Neapolitan · 11-07-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Yes and several other of the world's largest countries are divided into states as well so using the word "states" for the UN wouldn't make sense to huge numbers of the global population.

Maybe it would make Bernard happy if the UN changed it's name to "The League of Nations"

Barnard17 · 11-08-2009, 02:47 AM

Or the Concert of Europe, but then I never heard of those guys playing much music. League of Nations is a much more powerful and emotive name than League of States, which sounds a bit shit. That doesn't make it correct.

And seriously, is it that ****ing hard to read? If you're too lazy to commit my name to memory at least copy and paste.

**Janszoon** · 11-08-2009, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnard17

And some of the smaller countries, such as Belgium, which contains two distinct national identities: the Flemish and the French speaking. Geographically these two nationalities are quite polarised and form separate federated states within the sovereign state of Belgium. These are states that are members of a Federal Union; for whatever reason they view it as more beneficial to retain a certain degree of self-governance while also committing a significant portion of their ability to govern and decisions relevant to a central federal government. The collective of which is referred to as a sovereign state an entity which has it's own Government, maintains borders and is usually recognised by other sovereign states as being independent. The UN is a committee populated by member sovereign states. It was called the UN because the US was already in the common lexicon as referring to the United States of America but that doesn't make nation the "correct" term for use, hell look at the UN Charter where membership is only open to states, not nations.

Not that I especially enjoy referring to wikipedia when I could be Harvard referencing; quoting blocks of textbooks (and I mean BLOCKS) and typing up lecture notes the relevant pages are pretty good at giving a brief but correct overview.
Nation State. The nation-state is a certain form of state that derives its political legitimacy from serving as a sovereign entity for a nation as a sovereign territorial unit.
Sovereign State. A sovereign state, commonly simply referred to as a state, is a political association with effective internal and external sovereignty over a geographic area and population which is not dependent on, or subject to any other power or state.
...
In casual usage, the terms "country", "nation", and "state" are often used as if they were synonymous; but in a more strict usage they can be distinguished:

* Nation denotes a people who are believed to or deemed to share common customs, origins, and history. However, the adjectives national and international also refer to matters pertaining to what are strictly sovereign states, as in national capital, international law.

* State refers to the set of governing and supportive institutions that have sovereignty over a definite territory and population.

Federated State. A federated state, commonly simply referred to as a state, is a territorial and constitutional community forming part of a federal union.[1] Such states differ from sovereign states, in that they have transferred a portion of their sovereign powers to a federal government.[2] A federated state holds administrative jurisdiction over a defined geographic territory and is a form of regional government.
Nation. A nation is a body of people who share a real or imagined common history, culture, language or ethnic origin.

You will excuse me if I defer faith in the definition to the PhDs teaching me.

Hilarious. Thank you.

~~CAPTAIN CAVEMAN~~ · 11-08-2009, 04:47 AM

he's right though

**Janszoon** · 11-08-2009, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAPTAIN CAVEMAN

he's right though

Yeah but I'm Harvard right.

Neapolitan · 11-08-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAPTAIN CAVEMAN

he's right though

No he's not entirely right. He said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnard17

There are 50 member states within the United States already. It's existence also pre-dates that of the United Nations by 169 years. I'm pretty sure you've heard of it.

That is entirely wrong, The United Stated consists of 46 States, 4 Commonwealths and a Federal Disctrict, Washington DC.

Also note he used "within" The United States, there is only 48 States/Commonwealths "within" the contiguous United States.

CAPTAIN CAVEMAN, If you asked me, Janszoon's Havard smarts is smarter the Barnards PhD's smarts.

11-07-2009, 06:59 PM	#24 (permalink)
Barnard17 My home? Discabled, Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 204	And some of the smaller countries, such as Belgium, which contains two distinct national identities: the Flemish and the French speaking. Geographically these two nationalities are quite polarised and form separate federated states within the sovereign state of Belgium. These are states that are members of a Federal Union; for whatever reason they view it as more beneficial to retain a certain degree of self-governance while also committing a significant portion of their ability to govern and decisions relevant to a central federal government. The collective of which is referred to as a sovereign state an entity which has it's own Government, maintains borders and is usually recognised by other sovereign states as being independent. The UN is a committee populated by member sovereign states. It was called the UN because the US was already in the common lexicon as referring to the United States of America but that doesn't make nation the "correct" term for use, hell look at the UN Charter where membership is only open to states, not nations. Not that I especially enjoy referring to wikipedia when I could be Harvard referencing; quoting blocks of textbooks (and I mean BLOCKS) and typing up lecture notes the relevant pages are pretty good at giving a brief but correct overview. Nation State. The nation-state is a certain form of state that derives its political legitimacy from serving as a sovereign entity for a nation as a sovereign territorial unit. Sovereign State. A sovereign state, commonly simply referred to as a state, is a political association with effective internal and external sovereignty over a geographic area and population which is not dependent on, or subject to any other power or state. ... In casual usage, the terms "country", "nation", and "state" are often used as if they were synonymous; but in a more strict usage they can be distinguished: * Nation denotes a people who are believed to or deemed to share common customs, origins, and history. However, the adjectives national and international also refer to matters pertaining to what are strictly sovereign states, as in national capital, international law. * State refers to the set of governing and supportive institutions that have sovereignty over a definite territory and population. Federated State. A federated state, commonly simply referred to as a state, is a territorial and constitutional community forming part of a federal union.[1] Such states differ from sovereign states, in that they have transferred a portion of their sovereign powers to a federal government.[2] A federated state holds administrative jurisdiction over a defined geographic territory and is a form of regional government. Nation. A nation is a body of people who share a real or imagined common history, culture, language or ethnic origin. You will excuse me if I defer faith in the definition to the PhDs teaching me. __________________ Vita brevis, Occasio praeceps

11-08-2009, 02:47 AM	#26 (permalink)
Barnard17 My home? Discabled, Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 204	Or the Concert of Europe, but then I never heard of those guys playing much music. League of Nations is a much more powerful and emotive name than League of States, which sounds a bit shit. That doesn't make it correct. And seriously, is it that ****ing hard to read? If you're too lazy to commit my name to memory at least copy and paste. __________________ Vita brevis, Occasio praeceps

11-08-2009, 04:47 AM	#28 (permalink)
~~CAPTAIN CAVEMAN~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: VAN Posts: 2,530	he's right though