Haiti

Inuzuka Skysword · 01-16-2010, 07:19 PM

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Originally Posted by storymilo

Then don't donate. No one cares if you do, just don't complain when other people choose to help.

I believe some of our tax dollars are going to aid.

Also, it is partly my problem. Tons of people screaming for universal health care are donating money. They should be saving it for their up-and-coming operation.

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the US dragged the world into the recession from a bunch of stupid **** that we did and simply because the standard is on our dollar. and as much as we have done to haiti (see above posts) yes we ****in need to send aid.

if i had to choose money going to aid or war...hmm tough one..

The world invested their money in a bad companies. It isn't our fault if they made a bad investment. I don't think the present generation is responsible at all for the poverty of Haiti. It is kind of like how we aren't responsible for the sin of Adam and Eve.

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If you believe you're here on Earth to look out for yourself, then you shouldn't feel guilty. However, I think most of us are aware that on a deeper level that that's not why we're here. There's an old belief that exists in both humanism and spiritualism, and that is that in some sense, we're all responsible for each other. Unfortunately most people do not really live their lives according to this belief. People seek their own happiness and thus find themselves miserable. It's one of the strange ironies of life. If you want to truly be happy, you have to seek the happiness of others. Like it or not, we've each been born into a world where we're all responsible for each other and where our lives were never meant to be fully our own.

In the end, we're not here for just ourselves.

I think on a more insane and irrational level you realize that you are here for the benefit on everyone else. If you want to believe in god then go ahead, but don't start calling it truth. You can't point back to history or look at the moralities of people groups and say that altruism existed in all of them. That is called correlation. That doesn't mean that altruism is rational.

People seek their own happiness and become miserable because they didn't try to acquire it the right way. When you say that, you exclude the possibility of that kind of life creating happiness. However, you cannot blame selfishness behind it. There was much more going on in their lives than their selfishness.'

The bottom line is that you humans as slaves to each other and I view them as gods who are here to create their own lives. Playing god is a lot more fun than slavery.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 01-16-2010, 09:01 PM

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Originally Posted by anticipation

Last time I checked, "Haitian" isn't a race. It's a nationality, and I really don't see what makes this earthquake tragedy any more significant than issues we've all got in our own countries. It's odd to see people campaigning so feverishly for strangers who don't have any real bearing on their lives just because they've been affected by natural disasters, while the inhabitants of their own countries have been suffering their entire lives from poverty, violence, and illness. What is it about a mud-covered island dweller that gets peoples hearts bleeding, as opposed to inner city homeless we see everyday on street corners?

I guess my bottom line is this: who gives a ****?

I don't care if they are from a tiny city in Greece, they are still people and this was a natural disaster. How would you like it if your city/town/country was completely ruined through a natural disaster and the rest of the world had the same attiude, and therefore didn't give a **** about donating and helping restoration? I'm all for national pride but in the end, we all live, breath and die. We're not so different.

My heart also goes out to homeless people, but I'm fairly sure that is something the government is concerned with managing, and international pressure is often put on. I do give a "****" because I care for others, even if I have nothing to do with them.

My bottom line is, if you don't give a ****, then don't bother going on about it. Just get on with your life.

**Janszoon** · 01-18-2010, 12:40 PM

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Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword

We are in an economic recession and we are sending aid to a country that will not benefit us. It does not make any sense.

Of course, if you view us all as slaves of each other then maybe you can make an argument for sending aid to Haiti. You still advocate that self-sacrifice is moral and you expect everyone to do the same.

I feel bad for Haiti, and the earthquake was horrible. Donating money won't help me pay my bills.

It's true, if one is completely self-centered then, yes, helping other people makes no sense. For non-selfish people though, helping others is part of what it means to be a human being.

Inuzuka Skysword · 01-18-2010, 01:28 PM

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Originally Posted by Janszoon

It's true, if one is completely self-centered then, yes, helping other people makes no sense. For non-selfish people though, helping others is part of what it means to be a human being.

I am guessing you believe selflessness is something you are born with (in my view condemned to)?

**Janszoon** · 01-18-2010, 04:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword

I am guessing you believe selflessness is something you are born with (in my view condemned to)?

Nope.

Inuzuka Skysword · 01-18-2010, 05:06 PM

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Nope.

Then you must be a moral relativist. Your message comes off as if your not really attacking selfishness, but merely differentiating between the two kinds of people and the kinds of morality they have.

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It's true, if one is completely self-centered then, yes, helping other people makes no sense. For non-selfish people though, helping others is part of what it means to be a human being.

Egotism is what you are describing. What I described was egoism. Egotism means you are the center of the actual universe. Egoism means you are the center of your own existence. Helping other people makes sense when those people are people you love. Either way, you still don't sacrifice for them, meaning you don't experience a net loss. Helping people just because they are people could make sense if one wasn't in a recession in the moment. You don't give money away and then get angry at the prices that businesses put their services at. Unfortunately, that is the American mindset right now. Aiding other countries when one can barely pay the bills makes no sense to anyone who actually cares about their life.

If we want to afford health care then we don't donate to other nations. Any rational person would say save up for health care.

**Janszoon** · 01-18-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword

Then you must be a moral relativist. Your message comes off as if your not really attacking selfishness, but merely differentiating between the two kinds of people and the kinds of morality they have.

Egotism is what you are describing. What I described was egoism. Egotism means you are the center of the actual universe. Egoism means you are the center of your own existence. Helping other people makes sense when those people are people you love. Either way, you still don't sacrifice for them, meaning you don't experience a net loss. Helping people just because they are people could make sense if one wasn't in a recession in the moment. You don't give money away and then get angry at the prices that businesses put their services at. Unfortunately, that is the American mindset right now. Aiding other countries when one can barely pay the bills makes no sense to anyone who actually cares about their life.

If we want to afford health care then we don't donate to other nations. Any rational person would say save up for health care.

Hilarious rationalization/lack of perspective combo. Thanks.

Arya Stark · 01-18-2010, 10:16 PM

I'm trying to convince my parents to adopt from Haiti.
They want to, but they say it's too much trouble, that it takes too long for the child to actually get here.
We also don't have a room for the child.
But I wish we could, either way.

anticipation · 01-23-2010, 08:39 AM

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Originally Posted by Vanilla

I don't care if they are from a tiny city in Greece, they are still people and this was a natural disaster. How would you like it if your city/town/country was completely ruined through a natural disaster and the rest of the world had the same attiude, and therefore didn't give a **** about donating and helping restoration? I'm all for national pride but in the end, we all live, breath and die. We're not so different.

My heart also goes out to homeless people, but I'm fairly sure that is something the government is concerned with managing, and international pressure is often put on. I do give a "****" because I care for others, even if I have nothing to do with them.

My bottom line is, if you don't give a ****, then don't bother going on about it. Just get on with your life.

I'm not attacking people because they're donating, nor am I expressing any nationalistic agenda. I'm just asking where was the support before the disaster? Where was the telethons and celebrity campaigning and massive charitable donations when there was no earthquake? People in Haiti have been suffering for longer than two or three months, people have been dying and living in abject squalor for hundreds of years. It just seems to me that people are content to let others suffer and feel no moral need to help them out unless a catastrophic event takes place. In my eyes, the only difference between pre-earthquake Haiti and post-earthquake Haiti will be urban topography. In a few years time there will not be any significant change in the lives of the Haitian people, nor any other people who are suffering, because people don't care about their fellow man.

khfreek · 01-23-2010, 12:03 PM

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Originally Posted by anticipation

In a few years time there will not be any significant change in the lives of the Haitian people, nor any other people who are suffering, because people don't care about their fellow man.

So your argument this whole time is that you care about your fellow humans more than anyone else here, which is why you don't support aid for Haiti?