Mind Police
 

Scientists extract images directly from brain ::: Pink Tentacle

Apparently, scientists in Japan have just been able to view images of what is going on in someone's head. What they did was stick a person in an MRI and a computer keeps track of changes in blood flow and what not and uses that information to figure out what is in the person's mind. So far, all they have been able to reproduce are simple black and white images, but we all know how fast things like this move. Especially because I am sure governments all over the world are gonna be all over this. It sounds kind of cool at first, and there is actually a lot of good this can do, but I highly doubt its main application will be used for all the cool stuff. This actually scares me.

Scares me too. Whatever goes on in my head is my business and no one else's, but it seems like nothing's private anymore!

I honestly dont believe they took mental images of someone thinking out the letters of 'neuron'.

This is actually making me think of Orwell's book 1984.

The scariest part is this, if Japan has this kind of technology, can you imagine what kind of stuff the US must have. I'm sure the US goverment has its hands in this pot as well.

Do not like.

Why is everyone so scared of this? It would be impossible to do a remote MRI on somebody, so they can only access your "thoughts" under very specific circumstances.

Personally, i'd be thrilled if this was perfected. I've a lot of ideas that I simply can't execute - it would be great just to think them up. I'd be the most personal kind of art in existence.

That is just totally naive to think that the technology would remain like this. Sure, it is in the beginning stages, but don't you remember learning about computers that could do one simple calculation in a matter of hours and it filled an entire room? Now I can communicate with someone across the world, play a 3d video game, listen to music, and do hardcore calculus problems all at the same time while I'm on the bus.

It's only a matter of time.

Seeing as I can't seem to find any real sources on this, you may not have much to worry about. (links if you have them please)

The technology works based on fMRI. Which means it is impossible to do remotely. I would have never thought we'd have hand-held computers, no. I also wouldn't have thought we'd have computers that allow you to cook breakfast in the monitor and reach in and grab it... which we don't have. Somethings are flat impossible. I can't create new matter so I can't have a breakfast computer. I can't get an MRI without creating a very strong, contained magnetic field whilst laying in a chamber (which you have to do, you can't get an image otherwise). If they invent super-portable-magnetic field rays that can somehow single in on a target, ignoring everything else behind it, can track the taget whilst moving for long enough to get a reading (not to mention scale MRI technology to a reasonable size) then we'll talk.

To me anyway, it's simply not plausable.

Remote MRIs are impossible now. Whose to say what someone might come up with? It may not even require a magnetic field in the future...just something to detect blood pressure in the brain. Just because it seems impossible now does not mean that it is impossible. I take the viewpoint that nothing is impossible. So far, this has proven to be true. Airplanes, computers, cell phones, microwaves, cloning, speed of sound travel, the fact that the Earth is round...all have been said to have been impossible.

Besides, what would stop a corrupt government from just abducting you and sticking you in the MRI themselves?

I can't go the speed of light. We know that for a fact. I can't jump on a rainbow pony and fly to Neverland which is just beyond the north star.

This is all ignoring the fact that this "technology" (which I still question the authenticity of) seems to work with the visual cortex as opposed to truly "reading thoughts". They can only see what the patient sees with his eyes, not what he truly invents in his head.

Did you read the main article?

These are the limitations right now. With enough built up information, the computer would be able to tell what is going on in your mind's eye, not just what you see with your eyes. It is not simply working with the visual cortex, it is working with an image of the whole brain. If the computer tracks the blood flow when you are imagining a unicorn, eventually we will be able to tell if someone is thinking of a unicorn.

And even if you question the authenticity of the technology, just pretend we are talking hypothetically. After all, this is a pretty intense leap of technology.

Also, you took my "nothing is impossible" statement to the extremes. We can't physically travel faster than the speed of light, but I am sure we can get from one spot to another faster than light can by other means.

Stop with the fear mongering and the sci-fi crap, people. The government isn't going to develop machines to scan your brain from 4000 miles away. Besides, if you're just thinking of a whole bunch of random ****, they're just going to get pictures of taxi cabs and wildebeests anyway.

How long did it take for computers to become small? ~70 years? Now you're talking about MRI which has been around for 40 years and we're just now discovering some cool stuff it can do. And you want to sit here and say that the government is going to go all thoughtcrime on the populace and scan your brains?

That in itself is absurd, anyway. Governments aren't inherently evil, among other things.

Anymore today I won't be so sure to call it fear mongering because of the leaps and bounds in the advancement in technology. Anything sounds plausibe today.

You're right Gov't isn't evil, but the people running the government, who's to say what they are up to.

The government knows more about me than I probably know about myself!

No they don't.

Yeah, it isn't like the government would profile people and imprison them for the slightest misstep under the pretense of terrorism and then torture them.

Oh wait, they did.

Yeah. We get it. The Bush Administration sucked balls. These were tragic mistakes when people were flagged for "suspicious" behavior. Whether or not that was based on alterior motives remains up to debate.

They still don't know as much as people seem to think they know. They don't have a tab on everybody in s ome massive database. There is information and records about people out there. The Gov. doesn't care until you do something they deem suspicious. So they don't know your favorite brand of soda, they don't know about the pot you smoked yesterday and they don't know that the receptionist at work drives you crazy.

Through a little P.I can they find out plenty of details on people? Sure.

Mind reading the masses from some remote base? Bollocks.

When did I ever say I felt this would result in mind reading the masses?

The point I was making was that it would be used to further an agenda, whatever it may be. Don't tell me the Bush administration wouldn't have used this technology on those people if it was available to them.

Mind reading the masses would be ridiculous, I never said that would happen. The fear of it happening would be there, however...and that is what matters.

Making fun of the topic doesn't help promote an intelligent discussion. With all the tech developments, discussions like these are legitimate.

I'm just a bit turned off by the negativity in most of the replies about technology like this. Why assume the worst about it? It probably would be used in some unethical ways, but it's potential to me seems pretty limitless. A lot like the internet. It's used for some pretty disgusting things and it's even abused by Governments but look how much it changed our lives for the better as well.

This is old news to me. I saw a documentary once on technology similar to this. A handicapped lady was able to steer the mouse on a computer by thought alone. Another guy used it for writing (thinking the letters, much like described here). They were not in an MRI scanner while doing so. Their brain activity was measured in other ways.

I'm not worried about misuse of such technology, but I'm not scared of the government either. No government ever hurt me and I can't see any obvious reason why one should. This technology can really help a lot of people, though, such as allowing handicapped people to control computers or robots with their minds to do work for them .. For example to talk for someone who's lost the ability to do so.

ex :

Here's something more related to what I saw :



It's not creating images on the screen, but yeah - related. :)

This is the kind of discussion I wanted...not just people commenting on how stupid someone who thinks negatively about it is.

I agree, there are some amazing things that could come out of this. In particular, the potential to record and more closely analyze your dreams. That sounds amazing to me. I just think we need to be careful.

Even if this technology existed (which we have no proof of right now) the very worse it could do is to show what image is in a person's mind at the time. It wouldn't be able to read a persons thoughts because thought's aren't images or sentences or words, thoughts are abstract and instantaneous. The technology would have no way of rendering that thought and the person behind it wouldn't be able to interpret any of it.

If they want to see what's on my mind they don't need to invent some hokey machine to tell them. All they have to do is go to a local newsagent & pick up a copy of Razzle.

It would be a lot more accurate too.

I never imagined your thoughts as tame as Razzel, Urban :p:

THE DREAM POLICE, THEY LIVE INSIDE OF MY HEAD!!!

INSIDE OF MY HEAD!!!

THE DREAM POLICE, THEY COME TO ME IN MY BED!!!

COME TO ME IN MY BED!!!

Sorry about that.

I saw them doing this on "House" :P LOL

Yeah, interesting stuff. Scary **** though. I'm actually reading 1984 for the third time now, first time in years but I found it when clearing out my room and started getting into it again.

Not really. There's a lot of evidence to suggest that when you recall a memory you see it as a still image.

Personally I'm excited for the development of this paradigm of human-computer interaction though I'm wondering how far it will progress in my lifetime. Brain-computer interfaces have been around for a while but as far as I know, there is no uninvasive solution which works well. And I believe that most research efforts have been directed towards helping out those who are impaired or disabled in some way rather than towards transhumanist endeavours (fair enough).

Perhaps in the future we'll be able to perform a brain dump in the true sense of the expression? Imagine being able to effortlessly record your thoughts over a period of time, store them digitally and return to them later. Imagine being able to backup your brain. :D

The inherent problem with human communication is that even under ideal circumstances where the speaker is exceptionally eloquent and comprehensible and the listener is appropriately receptive, there can still be a gulf in understanding between them caused by tacit assumptions and misconceptions that are never cleared up or clarified due to their seemingly trivial nature (or time constraints). Also, when trying to understand a problem, people settle for different levels of understanding and we sometimes think we fully comprehend a concept until something leads us to reassess our scope of it and we realise there's a gap in our understanding. All this aside, oral communication can be a pretty slow way to transfer ideas/information.

Technology which allows thoughts (or lower level brain activity) to be digitally recorded and either replayed directly in another person's brain (not terribly feasible atm) or represented in a human-digestible form (maybe a series of images?) could aid immensely with communication between people since it facilitates an objective, more comprehensive and hopefully more efficient stream of thought between people and/or machines. And I don't think I need to go into why BCI is preferable to using a mouse/keyboard.

Of course there are all sort of moral, ethical and philosophical implications at play. And going back to the enhanced communication idea, even if it isn't immoral and unethical, it might not feel right as it is so far removed from anything human. It certainly destroys any subtlety.

But anyway, it's 4 am and I've gone off on a massive tangent so I'm gonna cease with the chimerical meanderings.

Some of this does sound like a Phillip K Dick nightmare.

What happens when we start arresting people for their thoughts? Like arrest people for having thoughts of killing somebody. Or when people start getting sexual stimulation tests and everyone who is confirmed to be sexually aroused by children get's a penalty?

The law should always be limited to regulating action and behavior, not thoughts and ideas. I'm worried that one day we could be lead into that direction.

On the other hand it would be cool to view other people's dreams, and who wouldn't want to record their own dreams? That would be kickass.

I'd love to compose music in my head. We could develop some truly never-before-heard sounds.

A lot of times I come up with really awesome melodies in my head when I'm half asleep but I always forget them.