Guybrush

The point is only that behaviour is influenced by genes so behaviour is a response to environment with foundations in genetics. Our genetic makeup is not random - we are products of evolution, processes like natural and sexual selection.

Maybe you didn't read my post on page 2, but this bit here is getting pretty close to the biological theory which explains rape as a strategy To understand the hypothesis in full, you have to know about biological selfishness. No animal has sex for the sake of it's species and no person has sex for the sake of humanity. We do it for our own sake.

Also, what you do and I don't is concern yourself too much with morality. To me, that's not the interesting thing here. Of course I don't condone rape and I don't think people here believe I do. I expect every other sane person here to feel the same, so discussing the morality of it is not really interesting to me. Discussing whether rape is a product or a byproduct of evolution is.

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Cressidagater

Well what you call morality, I call a better way of doing things. Just because there's a reason for things, doesnt mean the reason is good, or that the act is good. Rape is a sub-standard, lesser, weaker version of sex. Morality and immorality are only words; what im talking about, is the optimum way of doing things. Of living, even. Any reason you could theroise as to the biological purpose of rape, or as to how it somehow keeps the species alive, I could counter by saying, "it is always, always, always, going to be in the interest of the species, for the male and female to consensually have sex and then raise the child together". thats the highest percentage for this child surviving.

Maybe I get carried away, I apologise man I get fired up and go off on a tangent. Genuinely I believe there's some solid intelligent reasoning behind what I'm saying though; I'm not just arguing to be difficult here.

To pick up on a point there, you could claim no animal has sex for the purpose of sexual reproduction. And that sex its purely selfish. But, what is sex? the release of hormones, egg/sperms so forth. The satisfaction of releasing them, surely, is more satisfying, to release them in the CORRECT place; what I mean by correct, is the place that is willing, and also fundamnetllay designed to accept them. For example; a hat fitsthe head. It is more satisfying to wear a hat the fits more precisely, than the hat that does not fit.

So regardless of whether or not an organism is, inwardly concious of the fact that they';re havign sex for propagation and reporduction; if they only believe they're doing it for the orgasm, this doesnt matter. Because in my opinion, if they're only interested in orgasm, then surely they'd want the best orgasm possible. And I believe the best orgasm possible, is gonna be, with the aofrementioned thing, that is designed purely and utterly 100% by nature TO satisfy them. It doesnt matter if they dont think thats what theyu're doing; thats what theyy'll ultimatly end up doing even if they're only being selfish. People arent completely selfish though. Its a lot more complicated than that.


I agree that it's very interesting to discuss the beginnings of rape, what it is, where it comes from, what causes one to do it. But to myself, I feel the need to put this in context of Humanity. Not just, the how and why, but also, the what; what it is exactly, what should be done about it.

After analysing the whys, the hows, the whats, should it be celebrated and encouraged? or is it something detrimental?

Guybrush

So cressidagater, just to steer the discussion in a biologically relevant direction - you write that it is in the best interest of the species to have consensual sex. But what if you are a man who is not attractive and can't attract a partner? You can't find a partner for consensual sex .. what is the "best" course of action then (from a selfish point of view)?

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Cressidagater

well, unattractive by whose definition? thats the question. when it comes down to it, we are all too picky. Beauty is function; if you're alive thats beautiful enough on some level is it not? if its got a pulse, bone it lol only joking. I mean platonically all things are beautiful. not to sound cheesy but everyone is beautiful in their own way. In my opinion it's about finding someone you match up with very well. So while you may be ugly to some, there's someone out there to whom you'll be attractive. Finding someone you desire to procreate with and they with you. Because arguably, that is your biology, even, searching for the complimentary biology. When you truly find it, and they come together, all complimentary pieces, then a new life will be created.

If someone doesnt WANT to do it obviously they're not complimentary to you.


The race COULD survive via rape. You could argue all animals rape to survive, only I wouldnt argue that. Because they, (and I say this from observation alone), presumably cant think to do otherwise. So it's not rape per se, because there's no objection to it. We can think, we can object. The race could survive like that, by rape, to what end, though? What sort of human beings would that create, bred from a race of rapists? Degenerates. Behave like animals, and we'll become mere animals.

We could also keep the race alive by ****ing mindlessly. Consensually. But again, that undermines the ability to think.

This idea of beauty and ugliness, comes from that - thinking to finding a mate, with whom you could make a healthy baby; and then care 1. for this baby 2. for each other. Two people consensually having sex who find each others physical features tantalising and attractive, and each others minds stimulating, to make a baby, and to then care for the baby and each other altogether as a family. That's a solid unit that'll not only biologically keep the genes of the Human race alive, but our sanity, too; mental health.

Rape is just the failure or "impatience" to achieve that.

People might, as they do nowadays, popularly agree on whats beautiful and whats ugly. As such, individuals might be ridiculed or ostrasized for not fitting that. But you don't know who's out there - even if you're quasimodo, maybe you'll find miss quasimodo. Why should someone deprecate themself or see themself as inferior just because no-one they've met so far of the opposite sex has found them attractive? If you got all the bits and they work, no worries man nothing wrong or ugly.

I'm not even saying everyone will neccessarily get that in this life just because they desire it; the family, the love. You gotta work for it man. Might not happen for em. I'm saying, it's ideal, from my perspective, thats what I search for; and having questioned and explored the idea, I believe it's what every human being desires, and if asked I'd tell them to search for it too. Not everyone will achieve it, unfortunatly. I am selfish, to a great extent - would I be here discussing it if I'd found it? no. **** you all once i've found it everyone else can go **** themselves. What I'm saying here is, the rapists, the perverts, THIS is what they really want. They fool themselves otherwise, or maybe they dont fool themselves who knows, but whatever the case, that other stuff they do, is a comfort to them for having failed. Truth be told, you haven't failed, until you're dead. Why give up?

Very improbable I'll achieve this ideal of mine myself even, I'm well aware how I come across from these posts, and if anything, the internet waters me down; people dont want anything to do with me in general, and if im perfectly honest i dont want anything to do with a lot of people. But does that mean I'll give up? no. somewhere out there is a mentally imbalanced fascist sociopathic hilarious little sex queen of a kinky lady. Thats what the world will call her. What would I call her? free-minded and beautiful. As God is my witness im gonna find her.

tl;dr - If you're an ugly ****er, grow a sense of humour. That never hurts.
Someone being unattractive to the point that nobody on the planet would have sex with them , thats pushing it a bit there, though man. Not even hookers?

ah man hookers. thats a whole nother topic in itself.

Or you mean purely from the side that nobody would wish to procreate with them or settle down, have a family? Like I said, they should keep looking then,lol.



At the end of the day, one person concievably can rape another person. Just as I can, concievably sit here all day and hit my head against a brick wall.

Maybe the human race will continue healthily, maybe it works. And maybe I'll understand string theory. But if I want to understand string theory, surely, the intelligent thing to do, is to go and read up on string theory, rather than bang my head against the wall all day?

yeh just ignore my post actually this is a much better answer man lol

Guybrush

Not really

I asked a specific question which you avoided. By unattractive, I don't mean possessing this and that trait such as a crooked nose so the definition of unattractive is not really important. I just mean someone who can't find someone else to have consensual sex with them.

If consensual sex is not an option, then there are two general options. The first is to not have sex with anyone and the second is to have sex with someone only the sex won't be consensual. Each one of us comes from a billion years line of ancestors stretching back to the earliest microbial lifeforms. The reason we are here is because all of our ancestors managed to procreate. The desire to have sex is built in and it's often strong and so it's not that puzzling that it sometimes manifests in rather unpleasant ways when people can't keep a lid on it - or maybe don't even want to keep a lid on it.

But is assault rape a product or a byproduct of evolution? I haven't stated any opinion on this myself yet and frankly, it's because I don't know. I lean towards that it's a mix and that basically, it's something that can happen when a sense of morale is not sufficiently stimulated by environment, empathy is not stimulated or something else which keeps someone from emotionally connecting with other people. When such people have a strong sex drive and are unable to find willing partners, I think they can commit rape because they do have a desire to reproduce which manifests as a desire for sex .. and then they use people to satisfy it because it seems like the only option.

I'm guessing that assault rapists are people who don't find partners for sex the normal way. Is this assumption wrong or right?

edit :

To get some opinions going, I'll be a bit controversial perhaps and say that I think women who find that they are pregnant after being raped should strongly consider getting an abortion. Aside from the rape act itself being atrocious, having and rearing the child of a rapist is letting yourself be exploited. The rapist is then using your body and natural motherly compassion to give birth to and raise his child. I don't think anyone should be used that way.

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Harry

I disagree that it's biological... how could that be possible. Looking at the behaviours of animnals, they want to mate but they don't forcibly mate. The best looking, strongest male, the one the female chooses, is the one who mates.
it's that way to prevent spread of genetic ailments.
Same as monogamy. Mates for life is in order to prevent spread of genetic anomalies... which is also why we're very superficial beings.

Janszoon

You don't watch many nature shows do you? Sometimes the female chooses. Sometime she is forcibly mated with. Sometimes she lays a bunch of eggs and then a random male spooges all over them. Sometimes she kills the male after only mating with him once. It varies all over the place from species to species and situation to situation. Nature can be amazing but it can also be fucked up and cruel.

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Harry

But from a genetic standpoint, it would be ridiculously counterproductive to have 'rape' be natural.... because then a sickly, genetically ill creature would forcibly create spawn, resulting in a weaker offspring, and if they all did that, consequently a weaker generation. It doesn't make sense.

Janszoon

Huh? I'd imagine in would be much more difficult for a sickly animal to forcibly mate than it would be for a strong, healthy animal to do so.

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