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-   -   America's most hated family? (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/55443-americas-most-hated-family.html)

CanwllCorfe 04-04-2011 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boozinbloozin (Post 1030815)
I never saw it getting out of hand. Some very strong opinions but not like there was blatent name calling or anything like that. Ive seen more intense arguments than this on Mb. Any time theres a difference of opinion on something I think people are to quick to think its out of hand.

I hope you know I was joking! :laughing:

Bloozcrooz 04-04-2011 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe (Post 1030847)
I hope you know I was joking! :laughing:

It crossed my mind that it was just heavy sarcasm..but you never know on here. Some people are very uptight.

Janszoon 04-04-2011 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abearmauledme (Post 1030842)
Im thinking that organizing a trip to kansas (or wherever they live/pray) and ****ing **** up would be pretty fun. Broken windows and spray paint, that sort of thing.

I'm sure they'd never expect such a thing.

CanwllCorfe 04-04-2011 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boozinbloozin (Post 1030852)
It crossed my mind that it was just heavy sarcasm..but you never know on here. Some people are very uptight.

Yeah I'm the opposite of serious. I'm only serious if I absolutely have to be.

Dirty 04-04-2011 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent (Post 1030687)
There are no legitimate reasons to hate. It's believing that hate can have legitimacy that keeps hate alive. Nobody starts the hate, and the hate keeps flowing because everyone thinks, "If I stop it they'll just do it anyway!" Well, even if they do, so it goes. The only wise choice possible is to let the hate stop with you. Then at least you're not feeding the fire. You don't have to just stand by and let the fire burn, but you do need to realize you're only adding gasoline.

The world would not be a better place if someone came along and murdered these people. I'm sure that's exactly the logic that led to the 9-11 attacks. But it's so hard to see things from the other side.

Hate is hate is hate. Someone comes to you with hate and you respond in kind, feeling that it's justified. The only reason that person came to you with hate is because someone came to them with hate, and they responded in kind. And the only reason that person came with hate... you get the picture. It begins, the person came with a lot of hate and you responded with a bit of hate. They came with evil sadism and you got angry. But hate builds on itself. It's a negative feedback loop.

The first step is to realize that this is what's going on. Recognize that it's not the outside that's causing the hate, you're letting the hate arise in yourself. The second step is to not act on the hate, to watch it, recognize it for what it is, and let it pass. The third step is to find something else. To go look for the river to get water to put out the fire. The water isn't more killing, more yelling, more arguing. The water is understanding and wisdom. The water is peace and compassion.

The fire is burning and we all feel that we need to respond immediately. We need to do something about the fire. It takes a lot to accept that our response isn't helping. It takes even more to accept that our response is only fueling the fire. When we stop responding, it feels like we're just sitting idly by and letting it burn. But we have to stop responding before we can go look for water.

Then we're looking for water, and it seems so hard to find. The fire is still burning. "Look faster, you stupid idiot!" But we have to be calm to find the water. We can't keep running back to the fire and back to the water. We have to be single-minded in our determination to find the water. So that means, in some sense, letting go of the fire. Realizing that there's nothing we can do about the fire until we find the water.

It's hard to just recognize hate as hate, fire as fire. We always want to find a scapegoat. It's not just hate, it's their hate. And this hate I feel, it's not my hate it's also their hate. If they were gone, all the hate would be gone. But it's not. It's only gotten stronger. Hard to just watch the hate, accepting: right now, there's nothing I can do. Hard to see the possibility of redemption in every person. Hard to see the virtues of those consumed by hate. Hard to see because all their virtues have become the vehicles of hate. Hard to see where this hate has come from, or how to help it lose its grip. Often we try, and the hate only seems to intensify. Sometimes our good intentions are misguided. Sometimes what's needed is for the fire to just burn itself out.

We live in a mysterious world. It's easy to respond to joy with joy and hate with hate, hard to find a peace which will give us the wisdom we need to see through hate, see through ignorance, and do our part in untangling these webs. But that's what we're here to do. Past all the bullshit, that is our mission and our purpose. Whether or not anyone agrees with this, the seed is there. The wisdom is in many places, wherever you feel comfortable looking for it, living with it, helping it grow. Nothing else really matters.

While reading this I imagined you typing this somehow while peacefully meditating or something. We'll have to disagree on hate. I have no problem with hating someone or something, I think anger and hate are just emotions that are evoked in people and it's human nature to feel these emotions when certain buttons are pushed. Nothing we say on a music forum is going to change what they do and I don't see it as taking the higher road or whatever by "seeing through their ignorance and hate." I'm not trying to "fight" their hate with more hate, I'm just saying I absolutely hate them. They are the purest examples of asswipes and for me, my hate feels legitimate. The WBC members bring absolutely nothing to this Earth aside from hatred and infliction of pain. They give this world absolutely nothing positive and I feel the world as a whole would be better off without them. Their deaths would bring me joy. And there's no scapegoat or excuses for my hate, it is MY hate and I fucking hate these douchers as if you couldn't already tell my my pages of ranting and raving. Sure, hating them might not solve anything, but are we really looking for a solution here? How is forcing myself to try and feel peace and use my wisdom solving anything either?

cardboard adolescent 04-04-2011 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty (Post 1030885)
While reading this I imagined you typing this somehow while peacefully meditating or something. We'll have to disagree on hate. I have no problem with hating someone or something, I think anger and hate are just emotions that are evoked in people and it's human nature to feel these emotions when certain buttons are pushed. Nothing we say on a music forum is going to change what they do and I don't see it as taking the higher road or whatever by "seeing through their ignorance and hate." I'm not trying to "fight" their hate with more hate, I'm just saying I absolutely hate them. They are the purest examples of asswipes and for me, my hate feels legitimate. The WBC members bring absolutely nothing to this Earth aside from hatred and infliction of pain. They give this world absolutely nothing positive and I feel the world as a whole would be better off without them. Their deaths would bring me joy. And there's no scapegoat or excuses for my hate, it is MY hate and I fucking hate these douchers as if you couldn't already tell my my pages of ranting and raving. Sure, hating them might not solve anything, but are we really looking for a solution here? How is forcing myself to try and feel peace and use my wisdom solving anything either?

Well, you can't force yourself to feel peace. But by making peace your goal, you start to change yourself and how you see the world. When you do that, you start to influence others around you. This in turn gives you a stronger support base to become more peaceful. And so you set yourself on a positive feedback loop, and draw others into it as well. The scope of the effect of this is really irrelevant. Any effect, however limited, will be positive. That's really what matters.

Everything that exists brings something positive to this world. Everything, at some level, however obscure, has something to contribute. Sometimes it's really hard to see. But, if not for them, we wouldn't be having this conversation, right?

"What is the good man but the bad man's teacher? What is the bad man but the good man's work?"

Mojo 04-05-2011 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty (Post 1030658)
Thanks for your contribution Plum, I'll be sure to read up on the First Amendment, I have never even heard of such a wild thing. Thank god for Wikipedia!

But you did ask. You asked why your country allows these people to do what they do, and that IS why. The precious first amendment and the freedom of speech is exactly why these people are allowed to do what they do. They have their beliefs, they are entitled to practice them, and they are allowed to protest and demonstrate the way they do. Freedom of speech doesn't entitle people to speak their mind, aslong as they aren't pissing anyone off. It simply entitles people to speak their mind.

Personally I think that what they do is appaling, and they infuriate me, much as they do you. If I was burying a family member of a close friend and had to deal with these idiots then I would be tempted to go and have a go too, no doubt, but doing this would bring you down closer to their level in many ways.

It's their ideals, their beliefs and their organisation that you should want to kill, but not a group of people including families and small children. Who's to say you wouldn't believe their bullshit if you had been born into these morons and taught from childhood that THIS was right, and everything else was wrong.

crash_override 04-05-2011 05:47 AM

I'm with Dirty on this one. These people deserve to die.

I am however, very anti-censorship. I am glad the Supreme Court upheld the 1st ammendment and our free speech rights. But these people deserve to be burnt to death in painfully timed incriments. As in, one limb, one degree at a time. But I'm not willing to give up my 1st ammendment rights just to shut them up.

But yes, I also would mow these people down in a suicidal rage if I was ever met with that situation.

Mojo 04-05-2011 06:00 AM

They kill your kids, so you kill their kids right?

Yeah, that's intelligent.

crash_override 04-05-2011 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojopinuk (Post 1031045)
They kill your kids, so you kill their kids right?

Yeah, that's intelligent.

No, they piss on my fellow fallen service members graves and anger me to no end, so kill them all actually. Call it whatever you want, with your snide remarks.

Save your sarcasm for topics you actually know a damned thing about please.

Janszoon 04-05-2011 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crash_override (Post 1031064)
No, they piss on my fellow fallen service members graves and anger me to no end, so kill them all actually. Call it whatever you want, with your snide remarks.

Save your sarcasm for topics you actually know a damned thing about please.

I don't see any evidence that he knows any less about this particular topic than you do.

Mojo 04-05-2011 07:06 AM

I know exactly why you would be pissed off with them, and I would be the same way. I never claimed that this shouldn't anger you. However what I said wasn't sarcastic. They arent all grown adults who have had made a decision to believe what they believe. When they get their claws into their impressionable children and teach them their beliefs, they just mould more people like this.

Your county's laws protect these people and allow them to do what they do. It may be disgusting for them to picket and protest military funerals, or any funerals for that matter, but they are within their rights to do it and until that changes, it will continue to happen.

As much as I am disgusted by their beliefs and their practices, and the measures they take to try and enforce their beliefs on others (ie demonstrating at funerals) I simply don't think it is exactly the best solution to just exterminate them. You can call that a lack of "knowledge" if you want, but it's not like I actually believe these people kill children. I felt that was pretty obvious. But you would be killing theirs if this is actually how you propose to deal with beliefs different from your own, even if theirs are incredibly offensive.

Scarlett O'Hara 04-05-2011 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crash_override (Post 1031064)
No, they piss on my fellow fallen service members graves and anger me to no end, so kill them all actually. Call it whatever you want, with your snide remarks.

Save your sarcasm for topics you actually know a damned thing about please.

OOoOOOooooO....testy. Come on Mojo has a point. I see what you're saying Mojo about them not knowing any better. If I were brought up that way perhaps I would have been the same. There is such a thing as brainwashing. As unjustifiable what they did, it's still not going to solve any problems by killing them.

Howard the Duck 04-05-2011 07:30 AM

i think the reason why they seems to be given preferential treatment can be summed up thus:-

When the Second World War/Came to an end
We forgave the Germans/And we were friends
Though they murdered six million/In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too/Have God on their side. (Bob Dylan)

It's because they fight for a Christian God, innit? I mean if they were Muslims protesting at a serviceman's funeral, they wouldn't be let off so easily, would they?

Instinctively, I think it's just an extension of the automatons/robots of the congregation at churches slurping all the pastor's words as if it were gospel and that the pastor is infallible.

Which is why I no rikey institutionalised religion, you diggee?

Janszoon 04-05-2011 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Duce (Post 1031076)
i think the reason why they seems to be given preferential treatment can be summed up thus:-

When the Second World War/Came to an end
We forgave the Germans/And we were friends
Though they murdered six million/In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too/Have God on their side. (Bob Dylan)

It's because they fight for a Christian God, innit? I mean if they were Muslims protesting at a serviceman's funeral, they wouldn't be let off so easily, would they?

Instinctively, I think it's just an extension of the automatons/robots of the congregation at churches slurping all the pastor's words as if it were gospel and that the pastor is infallible.

Which is why I no rikey institutionalised religion, you diggee?

Er no... they're not getting preferential treatment, everyone hates them. The thing is that the leader of the clan and his daughter are both lawyers who are very good at knowing exactly what they can and can't get away with when it comes to free speech.

Howard the Duck 04-05-2011 08:38 AM

somebody better cement over those lacunas, then......

Phantom Limb 04-05-2011 12:40 PM

What if you only killed the adults? That'd probably be cool.

GeddyBass2112 04-05-2011 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1030586)
Well, one of Fred Phelp's sons is an atheist who speaks out against their church, I think that's pretty good.

I know that a few members of the family have nothing to do with the WBC or its teachings.

stillunusual 04-05-2011 02:36 PM

just watched this on BBC iplayer - so according to the Westboro Baptist church Obama's the antichrist, they're going to move to Israel to live in a pink cave and then 140000 jews are gonna convert to christianity, after which Jesus will come back and we'll all go to hell....
:rofl:

GeddyBass2112 04-05-2011 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stillunusual (Post 1031271)
just watched this on BBC iplayer - so according to the Westboro Baptist church Obama's the antichrist, they're going to move to Israel to live in a pink cave and then 140000 jews are gonna convert to christianity, after which Jesus will come back and we'll all go to hell....
:rofl:



That emoticon sums up in one emote what I think of the WBC.

Buzzov*en 04-06-2011 12:21 AM

This **** made me laugh hard as hell.
So did anonymous hacking their site as well.

Bloozcrooz 04-06-2011 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzov*en (Post 1031595)
This **** made me laugh hard as hell.
So did anonymous hacking their site as well.

Lol..heh..thats pretty funny man..made me think of this for some reason


(not meant to be offensive to anyone homosexual or bi or whatever your preference. nor is it meant to mock any soldier who's lost his life for his country)

Buzzov*en 04-06-2011 01:13 AM

****. That song is stuck in my head. It was a few weeks ago and I was singing at work.

Zaqarbal 04-07-2011 11:49 AM

On one hand, we could say they're the funniest family since.....



But, on the other hand, from the point of view of the soldiers and their families.... Imagine a mother suffering that terrible pain.... and then all those morons there... :nono: I understand the soldiers' anger.

WBC's idiocy has an international echo too. On 20 August 2008, there was a fatal plane crash at Madrid's airport. 162 people died. According to WBC, that was a divine punishment. Why? Just because three years before, Spanish parliament passed a law to legalize same-sex marriage.


Howell 04-07-2011 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaqarbal (Post 1032728)
On one hand, we could say they're the funniest family since.....



But, on the other hand, from the point of view of the soldiers and their families.... Imagine a mother suffering that terrible pain.... and then all those morons there... :nono: I understand the soldiers' anger.

WBC's idiocy has an international echo too. On 20 August 2008, there was a fatal plane crash at Madrid's airport. 162 people died. According to WBC, that was a divine punishment. Why? Just because three years before, Spanish parliament passed a law to legalize same-sex marriage.


**** man, never heard/read about this! This just makes 'em more scum than scum itself.... SCUM! :mad:

Buzzov*en 04-07-2011 03:14 PM

These guys make me laugh pretty hard honestly. *** agenda haha they need to grow up.

pooka 04-09-2011 12:03 AM

im just curious, has howell made any racist remarks yet?

Phzed 04-09-2011 04:18 PM

They're supposedly Christians, who believe in the Bible, yet there's nothing in the Bible where Jesus fought against Homosexuality, and he is supposedly God's son/God incarnate.

Jesus fought against poverty and selfishness, yet they seem to have done nothing towards the same cause, from what I saw in the documentary they seem to be pretty well off.

Also, if someone were to shoot one of their church members, would they say that was an act of God? Does the shooter not have free will?

Howard the Duck 04-10-2011 02:14 AM

^^there were only tirades against sodomy in the Old Testament.

Jesus said to forgive sinners.

Janszoon 04-10-2011 08:24 AM

Is it just me or does Fred Phelps kind of look like The Tall Man from the Phantasm movies?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y5TwdoOLPT...asm100608b.bmp

music_phantom13 04-10-2011 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phzed (Post 1034101)
They're supposedly Christians, who believe in the Bible, yet there's nothing in the Bible where Jesus fought against Homosexuality, and he is supposedly God's son/God incarnate.

Jesus fought against poverty and selfishness, yet they seem to have done nothing towards the same cause, from what I saw in the documentary they seem to be pretty well off.

Also, if someone were to shoot one of their church members, would they say that was an act of God? Does the shooter not have free will?

But in the old testament cities were destroyed for homosexuality... just sayin'.

I really hope these guys do move to Israel and live in a cave somewhere so we don't have to deal with them anymore. They disgust me, I understand it may be brainwash and the like, but I'm still disgusted by it. I don't know that I would want to wish death on them because of that fact, but still... it's ****ed up. Like Crash, and opposite of dirty, as much as I don't like it I don't really want to lose my rights so I don't think what they're doing is illegal. I do however hope they move to a cave or have a gay family member that makes them snap out of this ****.


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