Burning Down

This is just something that I've been wondering lately. Are there atheists out there who believed Jesus existed, not as the Son of God, but as a person?

I know it's not a very extensive question, but I'm just wondering what you think and if there is historical evidence of his existence.

Sansa Stark

Yes, I do believe he existed but I know his divinity was invented
However if the rest of the **** is true, he was a pretty progressive guy. I'm down with Jesus, in that case.

s_k

I'm not sure if his entire divinity was invented, but I'm sure some stuff was added throughout the years. I guess jesus existed and he became a legend, but I don't know if he deserved that.
So to me he exists as an historical character, Much like Julius Ceasar or Napoleon. I have no reason to 'believe' in him

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blankety blank

I do not believe a man named Jesus Christ ever stepped foot on this planet.

I do believe, however, that someone named Jesus did come in the flesh, was the Divine Word made flesh, and was born of a virgin named Mary. And, is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and was crucified, and not only will, but has risen again the third day.

But, the whole story is a literal myth. And, you are right, Jesus was cosmically progressive, and, I am really down with that as well. Jesus isn't so down with Christianity, however.

Now, without going all Josephus, can you prove that he actually was a historical walking, talking human being? Everyone who has studied knows that the Testimonium Flavianum is almost certainly a later interpolation.

Here's something interesting I will provide for free

MT 1:12 And after the Babylonian removal, Jeconiah begat Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begat Zerubbabel,
MT 1:13 and Zerubbabel begat Abiud, and Abiud begat Eliakim, and Eliakim begat Azor,
MT 1:14 and Azor begat Sadok, and Sadok begat Achim, and Achim begat Eliud,
MT 1:15 and Eliud begat Eleazar, and Eleazar begat Matthan, and Matthan begat Jacob,
MT 1:16 and Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was begotten Jesus, who is named Christ.
MT 1:17 All the generations, therefore, from Abraham unto David `are' fourteen generations, and from David unto the Babylonian removal fourteen generations, and from the Babylonian removal unto the Christ, fourteen generations.

Count the bold blacks. Unless Jeconiah was begotten twice by Josiah, then we have a situation. Why does it have to be so freaking complicated?

Just come down through those clouds and clear it all up, already!

What's that Jesus? Too many airplanes? Ah crap! Rapture's off folks. Sorry.

I'm sure there is a bible scholar in the house here who can explain this Ramona. It would take me a book or two just for this one chapter.

Might have something to do with Uriah, so, I think some Uriah's Heep is in order.



Take me across the water
‘Cause I need some place to hide
I done the rancher’s daughter
And I sure did hurt his pride

Well, there's a
Hundred miles of desert
Lies between his hide and mine
I don't need no food
And no water, Lord
‘Cos I'm running out of time

Fightin', killin', wine and women
Gonna put me to my grave
Runnin', hidin', losin', cryin'
Nothing left to save but my life

Stood on a ridge
And shunned religion
Thinking the world was mine
I made my break and a big mistake
Stealin', when I
Should've been buyin'

All that fightin', killin'
Wine and those women
Gonna put me to an early grave
Runnin', hidin', losin', cryin'
Nothing left to save but my life, life...

So I stood on a ridge
And shunned religion
Thinking the world was mine
I made my break and a big mistake
Stealin', when I
Should've been buyin'
I was stealin’
When I should’ve been buyin’
I was stealin’
When I should’ve been buyin’
Stealin’, when I
Should’ve been buyin’ ..
I was stealin’ ...

Who wrote this 'psalm' anyway?

peace

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someonecompletelyrandom

I think most do. Josephus provided a non-biblical testimony to his existence. A lot of archaeologists and historians are atheist and Jesus is usually treated as a definite as far as existing goes.

Janszoon

Most atheists are aware that Josephus is an unreliable source. At best his brief mention of Jesus is secondhand information written many years after the fact by someone who wasn't there. At worst it's a Christian forgery created hundreds of years later. And since Josephus is the only non-biblical reference to Jesus this puts his existence on shaky ground.

My own personal viewpoint goes a little like this:

Do I think there really was a Jesus who performed miracles and was the son of God? No. I have no more reason to think this character was real than any other mythological figure such as Hercules, Rama, etc.

Do I think there was a real historical guy from Nazareth born in the year 1 named Jesus who maybe wasn't magical but was some sort of revolutionary figure? It's possible but there isn't much evidence one way or the other. To me this seems about as likely as any other mythological character having a historical counterpart.

Do I think the character of Jesus may have been loosely based on a real person or people whose stories have been interwoven with traditional folklore from the region but not necessarily from the specific location or time period suggested by Christians? Seems fairly likely, but again, when you're talking about ancient oral traditions, who's to say where they come from.

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A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

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Neapolitan

The Gospels are not ancient oral traditions where the writers of the Gospel wrote them down hundreds of years later where generation and generations pass them on by word of mouth unitl it was written down and then attributed to a writer. With Jesus there were 4 witness in the form of the writers of the 4 Gospels that were written within a few decades after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So in this case people do when and where these stories started. That is not true with mythological character who origins are lost to the ages.

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Janszoon

Er, no. Please read this.

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A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die

last.fm

Neapolitan

I enjoyed the first time I read it when it was a part of Biblical commentary.

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The Virgin

was that even a valid site?