no trolling here - serious

Maybe if we lived in an ideal society equal work would translate into equal pay, but the reality is that in business and the real world things are much more complicated.

If a man and a women are both doing the same job absolutely equally well, than logically they should both receive equal pay. But then businesses often also operate by giving raises based on performance or loyalty. This is done for moral or in order to encourage future performance or continued work with the company. But this system of pay reward is also often based on the judgement and maintenance of some kind of manager or higher up.

Now whether or not you agree that that system is acceptable, you then have to ask whether legislators and government should be given the power to make these kinds of decisions. The question is often not whether something is right, but whether it is right to regulate.

If I was the owner of a company and I was able to pay female workers less for doing an equal job equally well, then I would only use female workers. Would it be fair? At any rate, it would be a logical business move.

If people believe that women are inferior to men, then it will be their loss when they loose the skills possessed by women. That is a societal issue that can only be combatted by education and will never be fixed by legislative measures.

The real question is whether it is right for the government to impose equal pay measures on companies. Not whether equal pay is right.

then you have to consider the "glass ceiling"

most employers will deny it exists, but it invariably does exist

I think there was supposed to be an "attempt" in that statement.

They can attempt to impose equal pay measures but it surely isn't going to work.

Some may say that legislation are the small steps towards the bigger goal just like when slavery was first abolished, people still owned slaves and it didn't change much but over time it had an impact

I always like to say no to these questions to get people stirred up, but it just isn't the truth.

On the rare occassion that a woman can do a job as well or better than a man, pay them. But, the reality is, most can't. It always seems like women are fighting to get something they haven't earned yet. Just an observation.

But if the job performance is equal, truly EQUAL, the pay should be also.

Then you'd basically be dooming most women to either get married and have their husbands support them, or just not have children. How many women can afford to take unpaid maternity leave, and then actually raise the damn kid?

marriage is still some sort of sanctity round these parts

Not in 1st world countries it's not.

So, oppress women to preserve the sanctity of marriage? No thanks. I consider the actual well being of people to be more important than some book(what ever that book happens to be).

The Quran

I totally agree with this.

Yes, I certainly consider women's rights to be more important than the Quran (or the Bible, Torah, Tibetan Book of the Dead, etc.)

:laughing:

Let me read that again

:laughing:

You're right of course, they only give them the 60 days off to recover from having a bit of a sore vaj. It's not like there can be anything more important for someone who's just given birth to a baby to do during that time.


:laughing:

Of course.

Haha, it's not like women are getting paid to go on a bloody vacation where they are picking up a child to take home, ready made like a roast chicken from the supermarket. :laughing:

After my wife gave birth, she was in so much pain that I was the one doing everything for the baby, yet I didn't receive paternity leave from my job.


Let me read that to you again (just to save you the trouble of having to double-quote me):


After my wife gave birth, she was in so much pain that I was the one doing everything for the baby, yet I didn't receive paternity leave from my job.

Oh clearly every situation is like yours, so it should totally be done away with.

right, okay, world doesn't revolve round you toots, et cetera

When did I ever say to do away with maternity leave? Oh yeah, never.:wave:

"Offer pay leave for other operations"

Pretty sure that would put it under the heading of "medical operations" rather than what it already is, maternity leave, stripping it of what it affords. So yeah, actually it is.

:stupid:Don't argue semantics just for the hell of it. Giving birth is a medical procedure, thus I posited that employers give medical leave for other medical operations as well, which most of them already do.

Giving birth is how the world expands. It's kind of a big deal. It's not just any old operation.

Thank you. As a father myself, I'm quite aware that it's kind of a big deal. Just forget I ever posted anything, Jesus f*cking Christ.

Sorry, to dig up this old bone but I came across a wealth of information that I thought would be useful in this thread.

It explains how the myth about women not being paid equally is really misinformation being spread and there are other factors to be considered.







This guy comes off as misogynistic with his tone but he makes some pretty valid points that I think everyone should hear.


An interview with the author of "Men On Strike".


Paul Interview with The Amherst Student


Dr. Warren Farrel at the Cato Institute
Talking about the truth behind the pay gap.

I don't even remember making this! I'm changing the title it sounds awful, of course women deserve equal pay.

before reading my posts consider my final 20 page undergrad term paper was titled 'feminization of poverty'

i didnt watch the videos or really read too much of this thread. but i will say that i think that wage gap talk is often just feminists talkin outta their asses lmao. a lot of ppl either dont realize or dont care that physically demanding and high injury risk jobs are usually held by men. thats certainly a reason they would get paid more.

actually a lot of problems just occur from divorce. its better now but in past decades women were especially unskilled when a family could live off one income. they would divorce. she would have few skills or certifications and on her own to basically start at nothing alongside a bunch of younger and more qualified ppl. plus child support stuff.

just thoughts im out

This argument has nothing to do with the fact that sometimes women that have the same job title and are in the same field get paid slightly less. In the first four min video he covers some better reasons for it.

My boss is in the same field as I am, and KNOWS LESS, and she gets paid almost three times my salary. Who do I complain to for discrimination?

Take it up with HR and they will tell you exactly why you get paid less.

They will tell me that gender has nothing to do with it. I'm at least intelligent enough to know this.

its still a valid point. i wasnt using that statement to argue for or against the same pay for the same work. moreso differences in things like median pay between sexes

i do think certain qualities are strengths of particular sexes and thats one of the big factors. of course that is general terms and there are exceptions and outliers. but instead of denying that and clamin ppl are sexist for acknowledging it i think its better just to admit and realize it

plus i think the qualities that men excel at over women are usually qualities desired in high paying jobs.

No actually, it's not. And neither is the glass ceiling effect.

i disagree. ive heard countless times the whole 77 cents for every dollar argument which is complete garbage because the people spewing it are insinuating that the reason for that ratio is because of sexism. most ppl who tote that stat don't use logic or rational thought when talkin about the subject thats the problem

i agree about the glass ceiling cause you can't give someone a racecar and give the others bicycles and minivans and expect everyone to finish at the same time. but i do think its overblown and most ppl who complain about it arent directly affected by it. it ties into my thoughts ive posted many times about our cultures love and obsession with bein seen by others as victims. plus the mindset of some ppl that i personally as a white male should live a life of guilt or whatever. <---- thats a minority of ppl but that irks me but ive learned to shrug it off and dont even care about those ppl anymore as i got older

No, they shouldn't







Heh! Just kiddin! What kind of a question is that anyway, in this the twenty-first century? Jesus! Next yiz'll want to be voting!! :rofl:

Serious face: Of fucking course women should be paid the same as men. Can there be any clearer case of gender discrimination if not? Shee. :rolleyes:

It continually boggles the mind that even though society in the West is utterly dominated by the market, there exists no shortage of people who have no idea how a market functions.

Labour of lesser value gets paid less.

Simple.