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-   -   Transgender in Disney (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/60189-transgender-disney.html)

Arya Stark 01-29-2012 02:21 PM
I say what I feel. And Il Duce. Don't try to call me honey like you trying to be all condescending and ****.

Above 01-29-2012 07:53 PM
Uh, well you're entitled to your own opinion then.

Tristesse 01-31-2012 03:52 PM
I think including transgender characters in Disney films is only going to further confuse children who, as children, are generally confused about identity. Let them come across those ideas later in life, when they can make decisions without having been influenced that they are the norm from an early age.

Paedantic Basterd 01-31-2012 06:39 PM
I think we're putting too much adult thought into the implications for children. Children don't think like we do. If they see a boy playing with a doll or wearing a skirt, the answer is literally as simple as "He's a boy that wants to be a girl."

Children are much more accepting of these concepts than we, people who've been shaped for decades by society are. Childhood is not a confusing age. I don't think many children question their identities at that age. The fact that they're just kids I think is a good reason to introduce them to these new concepts, before their minds are made biased by society.

Tristesse 02-01-2012 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 1148431)
I think we're putting too much adult thought into the implications for children. Children don't think like we do. If they see a boy playing with a doll or wearing a skirt, the answer is literally as simple as "He's a boy that wants to be a girl."

Children are much more accepting of these concepts than we, people who've been shaped for decades by society are. Childhood is not a confusing age. I don't think many children question their identities at that age. The fact that they're just kids I think is a good reason to introduce them to these new concepts, before their minds are made biased by society.
As a child, I speak for us all. We are confused. So very, very confused.

But I get what you mean. Society is to blame for a lot of the issues that individual people have. Although if who we are is the sum of our experiences (the slogan from a dating website I think) then surely having more experience of issues like transgender is going to influence them more than those who have never even considered the idea?

Scarlett O'Hara 02-01-2012 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 1148431)
I think we're putting too much adult thought into the implications for children. Children don't think like we do. If they see a boy playing with a doll or wearing a skirt, the answer is literally as simple as "He's a boy that wants to be a girl."

Children are much more accepting of these concepts than we, people who've been shaped for decades by society are. Childhood is not a confusing age. I don't think many children question their identities at that age. The fact that they're just kids I think is a good reason to introduce them to these new concepts, before their minds are made biased by society.
In some respects I agree with you, but just no directly being introduced to Disney so blatantly. I understand there are underlying indications of transgenders in the Disney movies but I think a better up bringing with an education from all sides will do far more for children's understanding of others than just flicking it in the odd Disney movie. Not only that, it is a sensitive issue for some parents who would end up banning kids watching Disney full stop if they did incorporate such a thing. That's counterproductive.

To sum up, I think if we educate society and the parents, the children will follow the lead.

Paedantic Basterd 02-01-2012 11:24 PM

Scarlett O'Hara 02-01-2012 11:33 PM
Beautiful. Very appropriate. Wish it could really get through peoples heads.

hip hop bunny hop 02-02-2012 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 1148431)
I think we're putting too much adult thought into the implications for children. Children don't think like we do. If they see a boy playing with a doll or wearing a skirt, the answer is literally as simple as "He's a boy that wants to be a girl."

Children are much more accepting of these concepts than we, people who've been shaped for decades by society are. Childhood is not a confusing age. I don't think many children question their identities at that age. The fact that they're just kids I think is a good reason to introduce them to these new concepts, before their minds are made biased by society.
Do you've any proof that the "innate" tendency is to be accepting of this behavior?

Above 02-03-2012 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1149414)
Do you've any proof that the "innate" tendency is to be accepting of this behavior?
Common decency?

Howard the Duck 02-03-2012 09:52 AM
transgenderism is highly frowned upon in my neck of the woods

they believe a sex change is only appropriate if there were some genital defect

hip hop bunny hop 02-03-2012 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Above (Post 1149573)
Common decency?
That's a culturally relative concept, and trying to impose it globally would be nothing short of a form of liberal cultural imperialism.

Pedestrian's post seemed to be buttressed by two concepts, (1) tabula rasa, and (2) the notion that society (or civilization, in the European sense) corrupts...

Rubato 02-03-2012 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1149414)
Do you've any proof that the "innate" tendency is to be accepting of this behavior?
Lack of acceptance is seen as a possible defect.

Quote:
The research finds that children with low intelligence are more likely to hold prejudiced attitudes as adults. These findings point to a vicious cycle, according to lead researcher Gordon Hodson, a psychologist at Brock University in Ontario. Low-intelligence adults tend to gravitate toward socially conservative ideologies, the study found. Those ideologies, in turn, stress hierarchy and resistance to change, attitudes that can contribute to prejudice, Hodson wrote in an email to LiveScience.
Quote:
Earlier studies have found links between low levels of education and higher levels of prejudice, Hodson said, so studying intelligence seemed a logical next step. The researchers turned to two studies of citizens in the United Kingdom, one that has followed babies since their births in March 1958, and another that did the same for babies born in April 1970. The children in the studies had their intelligence assessed at age 10 or 11; as adults ages 30 or 33, their levels of social conservatism and racism were measured.
Quote:
Prejudice is of particular interest because understanding the roots of racism and bias could help eliminate them, Hodson said. For example, he said, many anti-prejudice programs encourage participants to see things from another group's point of view. That mental exercise may be too taxing for people of low IQ.
Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice | Racism, Bias & Politics | Right-Wing and Left-Wing Ideology | LiveScience

Tapeworm 02-04-2012 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Il Duce (Post 1149590)
transgenderism is highly frowned upon in my neck of the woods

they believe a sex change is only appropriate if there were some genital defect
What kind of logic is that?

Like, yeah, if somebody wants to be another sex they just have to accept the genitals they're born with, but if their pecker didn't come out right then it's ok to turn it into a vagina?

Social conservatism is the lulz.

hip hop bunny hop 02-04-2012 02:05 PM
Oh noes, Rubato has called in a roflcopter attack!

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...3SsaU-j1HNuxCB


Aaaaaa! I must defend myself... quick, google image search!

Perhaps if I search for a graph breaking down attitudes on Prop 8 by race:

http://citizenchris.typepad.com/phot..._8_by_race.jpg


Aaaa! Oh noes, blacks in California overwhelmingly opposed gay marriage! Does this mean Black Americans are stupid, bigoted, conservatives?

Rubato 02-04-2012 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1150102)
<silly things>
not really.

Quote:
Hodson was quick to note that the despite the link found between low intelligence and social conservatism, the researchers aren't implying that all liberals are brilliant and all conservatives stupid. The research is a study of averages over large groups, he said.

"There are multiple examples of very bright conservatives and not-so-bright liberals, and many examples of very principled conservatives and very intolerant liberals," Hodson said.

Nosek gave another example to illustrate the dangers of taking the findings too literally.

"We can say definitively men are taller than women on average," he said. "But you can't say if you take a random man and you take a random woman that the man is going to be taller. There's plenty of overlap."

Nonetheless, there is reason to believe that strict right-wing ideology might appeal to those who have trouble grasping the complexity of the world.
Quote:
The researchers controlled for factors such as education and socioeconomic status, making their case stronger, Nosek said. But there are other possible explanations that fit the data. For example, Nosek said, a study of left-wing liberals with stereotypically naïve views like "every kid is a genius in his or her own way," might find that people who hold these attitudes are also less bright. In other words, it might not be a particular ideology that is linked to stupidity, but extremist views in general.

"My speculation is that it's not as simple as their model presents it," Nosek said. "I think that lower cognitive capacity can lead to multiple simple ways to represent the world, and one of those can be embodied in a right-wing ideology where 'People I don't know are threats' and 'The world is a dangerous place'. ... Another simple way would be to just assume everybody is wonderful."
It was more a playful ad hominem than anything.

hip hop bunny hop 02-04-2012 03:13 PM
Yeah, I figured. My original reply was a convoluted mess of graphs breaking down PISA reading scores, IQ results, party affiliation, by race.... an over enthusiastic response to a liberal admitting IQ testing is valid, if you will.

Then I realized I wasn't speaking to the Batlord, and I had to delete most of my graphs. It was like shooting a mortally wounded hunting dog. :(

Paedantic Basterd 02-04-2012 04:16 PM
I'd like to see the source for the graph you did leave. For all we can see, it's asking what different ethnicities think of cheerios or something.

hip hop bunny hop 02-05-2012 03:36 PM
No problem Pedestrian; LINK.

The Batlord 02-06-2012 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1150112)
Yeah, I figured. My original reply was a convoluted mess of graphs breaking down PISA reading scores, IQ results, party affiliation, by race.... an over enthusiastic response to a liberal admitting IQ testing is valid, if you will.

Then I realized I wasn't speaking to the Batlord, and I had to delete most of my graphs. It was like shooting a mortally wounded hunting dog. :(
I stopped taking you seriously a while ago, dude. I don't watch enough Fox News to be able to care about what you say. If we're talking about music, then it's all good. If we're talking politics, then you aren't worth talking to.

Above 02-07-2012 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 1150130)
I'd like to see the source for the graph you did leave. For all we can see, it's asking what different ethnicities think of cheerios or something.
That's a graph I'd like to see :D

Janszoon 02-07-2012 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 1150130)
I'd like to see the source for the graph you did leave. For all we can see, it's asking what different ethnicities think of cheerios or something.
There's no way 51% of white people voted no to Cheerios. :laughing:

Above 02-07-2012 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1151170)
There's no way 51% of white people voted no to Cheerios. :laughing:
Honey nut Cheerios are the best.


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