What are your thoughts on fire alarms and sprinkler systems in hotels?

If not for disability legislation, how would disabled people be represented in these kinds of scenarios? Are they just screwed from birth and we should not give a crap about their plight?

Curious about your thoughts here.

Presumably he follows the Ayn Rand school of thought that they're only stuck in wheelchairs because they're too lazy to walk everywhere and get a real job, the dirty Commies.

Circe, what on earth are you on about?

The owners of private property should not be compelled by law to make their property wheel chair accessible. In cases of public property, it's more difficult, but - certainly - we needn't be paving ramps in national parks or worrying if those bathrooms are crip friendly.

It'd be nice to debate with somebody who doesn't refer to handicapped and wheelchair'd people as "crips".

He does it because he's scared of them.

There's a nugget of truth in your position, but it's covered in ****.

I agree, we can't shouldn't have to make everywhere wheelchair accessible, just like we can't make everywhere safe. It has to be/is within reason.

But in places where ALL it takes is a ramp/a slightly bigger lift why bitch and moan about it? Does that ramp take away anything from you?

I'm sure we'll all come round when the cripples take over, THEN we'll see those ramps were a mistake, but it'll be too laaaaate!

Nahh

You can still run away from them up some stairs.

They have the advantage of being able to throw limbs in defense. And those things are built to last.

Well does a ramp have a cost maintenance associated with it? If it does, and it costs more than the profit crippled people bring in, I think the legislation should continue to exist.

If it's more profitable for the owner to build the ramp, then I'll consider your point.

They won't spring the trap until they have ensured they have access everywhere, it's the only reason they haven't struck yet! Sure, stair landings and trees might be safe for a while, but we have to eat!

I can walk up a ramp.

I've seen handicapped people use their hands to walk around. Perhaps they could do that to get up the steps.

Of course if disabled people got off their fat arses and invented these...

http://viewyonder.com/wp-content/upl...g_trousers.jpg

You wouldn't need ramps or anything like that.

And surely pillow people could just slinky spring their way up and down the steps.

I always thought parachutes were far more practical and less maintenance.

What, you want to pander to the flightless???

Well of course they can land on their feet.

I took nothing out of context. I love context.

Successful businessmen can afford a ramp like they can afford a month's worth of their designer clothes and gasoline for their collections of cars. Easily.

And guess who builds those ramps. Engineering firms that employ skilled laborers and unskilled laborers do. Lookee there: Jobs!

I guess hhbh arguement is for the privately owned business. But I heard a plenty of stories from elderly people who tripped on those handicapp accessible rampy corners then fall and get hurt. I don't know where you live at Face, but I live in a city where it can get icy in the winter time, and those ramps pose a slippery threat to the elderly. Maybe they are not taking anything away from him now, but who knows fifty years from now he might have a dagerous encounter with one of those handicap ramps.

Well, I've got something to look for on Youtube now.

I have to say that every business should have places for crippled people too. I know that is not a popular opinion but come on, I mean it is not as they were chosen to be disabled. Some children wer eborn this way and we need to do what we can to help them too not just those who are 'NORMAL'. I think we should absolutely find ways to make sure that crippled people get some respect.

Just to let people know, it's "Handicapped". Handicapped. I have a friend who lost his leg, and if you were to ever call him a "Cripple'... well lets just say you'd be beat to death by a one legged man.

As far as Handicap access in public areas, most builders have to follow strict codes for that depending on the zoning. It varies from state to state (here in the US), but it's pretty much the same guidelines as this:

http://www.statelibrary.sc.gov/docs/...quirements.pdf

So you're just assuming every business is highly profitable and their overhead just allows them the ability to liquidize their assets to buy something that isn't essential in running a business.

None of that would be required if they weren't building the ramp in the first place, so that has nothing to do with the posed question.

I live in a city where it can get icy in the winter.

Here's a list of where I have, or have witnessed someone slipping.
Stairs
Ramps
Hills
Pavements

And if you want to use the stairs, use them! Magic. Or if he's in a mobility scooter, there'll be a ramp! Bet he won't be bitching about them then.

Disability acess are part of the overheads for a business now. Deal with it. Along with smoke alarms, fire safety drills, minimum wages, taxes, health standards etc. If putting in a ramp puts the business over the edge, well then they were going to fail anyway.

It scales with size (one small shop needs one tiny ramp), is a tiny fraction of the business expenditure and is largely a one time payment, are mutli-use they can be used for trolleys/trams/walking/bikes and aren't (usually) enforced where it would be highly impractical.

Find something worth bitching about.

Property rights are important, & the Government trampling them is worth bitching about.

Thats my only issue with it is forcing a business owner to do something that should be his choice.

I've been thinking about this for a couple days and I wanted to give my two cents on it again. I've come to a point where I feel that if a private business doesn't have handicap accessible ramps, it should be their choice whether they want to put them in or not. I'm only basing this off the notion that their private business is located on their own private property. I looked at it from a POV of someone who used to work for a company that was home office based. If somebody came to the house and demanded it to be handicap accessible, I would definitely see the issue that would arise with the owner of the property.

However, with public businesses such as a restaurant and a grocery store, they should be made to become handicap accessible if the issue were to rise. I don't think it's appropriate for somebody to complain about it for no reason. I would say under certain circumstances i.e. an employee is handicapped and needs an easier form of getting into the workplace, than yes, I do think that there should be a ramp installed, even if it's a metal ramp that could be taken down if need be.

I see installing ramps, etc, as a common courtesy and the government shouldn't really be telling anybody to become 100% accessible.

But if it's not a profitable move, then there is no incentive to do it so why would anybody? Part of the point of these kinds of legislation is to lend a helping hand cause otherwise there would be no incentive.

Fire alarms, safety drills, cleanliness, food safety, lighting, temperature etc are all regulated, you aren't complaining about that. Disability access is regulated where it is for businesses/developments where it is reasonable to do so.

It seems you're only picking on disabled access because it doesn't specifically benefit you.

Hah! NOW I finally know what to get my sister for Chrismas! And just in time, too!

Seriously, everyone whining about "cripples" (horrible word, nobody uses it anymore, so if you do you're just showing your ignorance) should think about how they'd feel if they were in a wheelchair, totally dependent on another person. In fact, I'd recommend anyone who doesn't understand "what the big deal is" to volunteer to push a wheelchair with a disabled person in it for a day. You'll soon see how disabled-unfriendly this world is. A simple thing like crossing the road can be a harrowing experience! Believe me, I know whereof I speak!

There is not really much to debate here. If the private company wants greater business then maybe they should put ramps in for disabled people. They put in on-site car parks to generate more business, have drive-throughs and ramps are just another business proposition for them. It's not exactly going to be a huge money spinner but it would have good marketing value.

For somebody that supposedly doesn't dislike disabled people, you do a great job of tarring them with your negative brush.

"crips" as usual you've got a lovely way of expressing yourself.

There's an incentive from a pubic relations stand point.

That being stated, even if such a thing is helpful, why should it be the domain of Government?

Because the Government has a responsibility to look out for it's people.

And I'm not sure a vocal minority would be enough in this case. It's not like refusing to serve blacks, where the restaurant is doing it solely based on skin color, and at no cost to their establishment (in fact, refusing to serve blacks would be a cost in itself).