Right, and all of those things point to it not being a reliable document from God, which it why it makes the "god exists" argument harder to make.

The Christian god said there would be suffering in the world, so he's the one I brought up when talking about suffering = no god.

I don't wanna argue because I'm not too smart and pretty inarticulate, so I'd lose and get my feelings hurt.

I don't think there are very many people who would say that it's 100% certain that there isn't a god. I'd go so far as to call it a strawman argument to criticize atheists for that. Atheists who actively believe that there is no god generally feel that the lack of evidence for god and evidence for a naturalistic universe are convincing enough that they feel comfortable saying that he doesn't exist, but would stop short of calling it a certainty.

For the most part, there is no such thing as a gnostic atheist. It's simply not a philosophical position that makes any sense to say that you know god doesn't exist. Even the most militant atheists would only describe themselves as agnostic atheists unless either A.) they had a different definition of "gnostic atheist", or B.) they were an idiot.


One other thing that picks at my brain. I can respect the logic behind being agnostic, but the basic idea of someone being able to remain completely undecided about such an important and defining concept as the existence of a god seems ludicrous to me. Your certainty might not be strong, but I just don't think the human brain can keep you from forming an opinion one way or the other, just because your logic might tell you that your belief was irrational.

:beer:

Get off the f*cking fence and choose a side and then live with it 100%.

I don't believe in God 'cuz he don't believe in me, and he never returns any of my calls.

Although, it's funny, one time I was watching a Nevada/Boise State football game, and I wanted Nevada to win as it was my hometown team. It was tied at the end and Boise was going for a short field goal to win, I asked god to make him miss, and he did, then same scenario in overtime, and I asked again, and he missed again. Nevada won. I didn't know how to pray so I just kinda made a request directed toward god. Both of those field goals were like 20 yards.

So yeah, God made that happen obviously.

who specifically is acting like they know? we're talking about logic to make a best guess, not absolute certainty one way or another. this line of reasoning is akin to "where is the evidence that vampires don't exist?"

i dunno why that is. i'll say to you what was said to me once. if you think it is simple to create a meaningful universe that doesn't allow for suffering and still has life evolve, feel free to spell out how you would design such a universe. the nature of suffering is logically built into the concept of life as a mechanism for navigating existence.

so if there is a god i'll say i'm grateful i exist rather than not existing and won't hold the suffering against god. you basically have to take the good with the bad imo. life is a package deal but its worth it to me.

Straw man 101.

The majority of the suffering is grounded in the creator.

do you know what straw man means? cause i'm making my own argument, not representing yours. my argument is that suffering is necessary for a universe where life is capable of evolving and interacting with that universe. you can disprove that argument by describing a universe that would logically achieve that end goal without including suffering, which is what i challenged you to do. not a straw man. a simple challenge is all.

Once when playing Axis and Allies (board game) I was mocking Jesus out loud, because I was an atheist kid and that's what we do, and I rolled three sixes. I did not heed the advice. Next I rolled either a six-six-five or a six-six-seven. I stopped talking **** for a little while after that. Actual true story.