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Two Spirit 08-25-2015 07:09 PM

Bernie Sanders vs Donald Trump
 
Due to the outsider nature of both candidates within their own parties, I thought it would be interesting to see what the election would look like here on MB if these two end up becoming the main nominees for the '16 election. Just a fun little poll to see who you would vote for if it came down to these two.

For me, I would actually go with Trump, because even though he goes too far with some of his statements, especially his statements towards Megyn Kelly, I do admire the way he pisses off the establishment and the media. Plus, he actually has an opinion on illegal immigration that doesn't involve giving an inch to the Democrat's positions on this issue.

I do think Bernie Sanders is a good guy, but I'm not a socialist in any strong sense, so I can't support him. He also lets himself get humiliated by hecklers and even apologizes for it. If he wants to run the country, he needs way more of a spine than that.

Anyway, who would you vote for out of the two?

Josef K 08-25-2015 07:19 PM

Clearly Sanders. He's not a socialist in any strong sense either, although I am. Electing a Republican would be disaster - it probably means four reactionary SCOTUS appointments and a war with Iran, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I actually think Trump would be a better President than most of his primary opponents, just because he'd be too incompetent to actually get the stuff he wants.

I think Trump's controversial statements are a distraction - it doesn't make sense to care more that he said something nasty about Megyn Kelly than you care that he wants to take necessary anti-poverty programs away from the people who need them, or that he wants to deport millions and millions of people, or whatever. Not sure what it matters that he "has an opinion" on immigration if that opinion is terrible, but I'd love to hear your actual argument in favor of his position instead of just a bunch of no-content statements which it's impossible to respond to.

ETA: Also, those controversial statements are a totally calculated move on his part - he knows people like you will be like "Oh he's standing up to the Democrats," and then when people get mad he gets to complain about political correctness, which just helps him with the base more. He knows what he needs to do to win a primary - although he's not going to.

Two Spirit 08-25-2015 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K (Post 1629671)
Clearly Sanders. He's not a socialist in any strong sense either, although I am. Electing a Republican would be disaster - it probably means four reactionary SCOTUS appointments and a war with Iran, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I actually think Trump would be a better President than most of his primary opponents, just because he'd be too incompetent to actually get the stuff he wants.

I think Trump's controversial statements are a distraction - it doesn't make sense to care more that he said something nasty about Megyn Kelly than you care that he wants to take necessary anti-poverty programs away from the people who need them, or that he wants to deport millions and millions of people, or whatever. Not sure what it matters that he "has an opinion" on immigration if that opinion is terrible, but I'd love to hear your actual argument in favor of his position instead of just a bunch of no-content statements which it's impossible to respond to.

ETA: Also, those controversial statements are a totally calculated move on his part - he knows people like you will be like "Oh he's standing up to the Democrats," and then when people get mad he gets to complain about political correctness, which just helps him with the base more. He knows what he needs to do to win a primary - although he's not going to.

I've never been a big fan of illegal immigration and how a lot of people in this country seem to just excuse it as if it's no big deal, and that anyone who says anything against it must be a raging racist bigot.

I'm actually not much of a conservative, but illegal immigration is the one issue where I think the Left completely gets it wrong. It's so obvious that crossing the borders without the correct papers and documentation is wrong, that I honestly can't fathom why people would defend it and try to give illegal immigrants access to the same benefits that legal American citizens get.

Josef K 08-25-2015 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two Spirit (Post 1629680)
It's so obvious that crossing the borders without the correct papers and documentation is wrong

Why?

Two Spirit 08-25-2015 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K (Post 1629706)
Why?

Because it's illegal.

Josef K 08-25-2015 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two Spirit (Post 1629708)
Because it's illegal.

Lots of things are illegal but that doesn't make them all wrong. If "Americans" deserve access to certain services, don't all people deserve access to those services?

Two Spirit 08-25-2015 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K (Post 1629710)
Lots of things are illegal but that doesn't make them all wrong. If "Americans" deserve access to certain services, don't all people deserve access to those services?

Of course something being illegal doesn't automatically make it morally wrong, but in the case of immigration, it's still something that nations have the right to enforce. We can't disregard all laws because some people feel it shouldn't be illegal. It has to be looked at in a case by case basis.

As for services, I disagree. Legal citizens pay a certain percentage of their taxes to fund those programs, so those programs should only go towards helping legal citizens. Now, of course, there are legal Americans that lose their job or have to go on unemployment so they can't always contribute, but that's why we have those systems in place, so that we can take care of our own. A person that doesn't even respect our borders shouldn't get to take advantage of the social programs that are designed to help native born citizens, let alone have politicians on both the left and the right that are willing to sell the working class out to illegal immigrants that can be paid a non-living wage, which helps to undermine the low income class even further.

John Wilkes Booth 08-25-2015 08:49 PM

i thought trump's megyn kelly diss was entirely appropriate

i mean people act like he went out and attacked her out of nowhere... she clearly started it

these bleached blonde ratchet looking fox news hoes need to learn that daddy trump keeps his pimp hand strong

Two Spirit 08-25-2015 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth (Post 1629712)
i thought trump's megyn kelly diss was entirely appropriate

i mean people act like he went out and attacked her out of nowhere... she clearly started it

these bleached blonde ratchet looking fox news hoes need to learn that daddy trump keeps his pimp hand strong

I agree that she started with the accusations of "misogyny," but Trump has pushed this feud way farther than he's needed to at this point.

The fact that he's still tweeting her is enough proof that he needs to quit these sideshow antics and focus more on his campaign, as funny as it may be from time to time.

John Wilkes Booth 08-25-2015 08:56 PM

nah

**** that bitch


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