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MicShazam 11-04-2018 12:04 PM

This hierachy free model would require nearly everyone to agree that it's a good idea, which is a stretch. So there's gonna have to be someone to reinforce adherence to the model, lest it fall apart, but then we're back at square one.

DwnWthVwls 11-04-2018 12:05 PM

Thats just silly. There is nothing inherently evil about being a leader

The Batlord 11-04-2018 12:22 PM

There is something inherently evil about being expected to give your decision making rights to a leader.

MicShazam 11-04-2018 12:48 PM

Constant chaos and death. Great idea.

MicShazam 11-04-2018 12:54 PM

I kind of appreciate the fact that no one is currently throwing around molotov cocktails in my street.

The Batlord 11-04-2018 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2012031)
real freedom comes at a cost

is a safe life in a cage worth it

You're talking about a military though and besides a cult or something similar there is no more rigid hierarchy than a military. That's one instance where freedom would legit be the worst idea imaginable. And you don't just go from rigid hierarchy to no hierarchy, like... that doesn't make sense.

The Batlord 11-04-2018 01:05 PM

I really need to read up on that but that's not really a representative case.

The Batlord 11-04-2018 01:34 PM

To expound on what I've already said, I don't think there's fundamentally any difference in how modern citizens of democracies interact with their leaders (political or economic) with how peasants interacted with kings, emperors, and the nobility. We grumble about what they do but ultimately defer to them as masters of our fate. The only real difference is that every two or four or six or however many years we have legal recourse for our grumblings, but the existence of those other years reinforces our peasantry and allows them to co-opt our decision making.

I see this not as freedom but as a stop gap measure, a half measure that makes us complacent by giving us the illusion of progress, much in the same way that unions and minimum wage give workers the illusion that they have power over employers while in fact they are a band-aid to keep us complacent while we do nothing to deal with the core problem that makes workers subservient. Representative democracy gives the people the illusion of control over their country's future, but in fact simply gives our masters a certain benefit of the doubt that they are not in fact masters so that they can continue to exploit and control as have more de jure masters through out history.

We are still slaves. The power structures still exist as they always have. We just feel better about it.

OccultHawk 11-04-2018 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66Sexy (Post 2012049)
To expound on what I've already said, I don't think there's fundamentally any difference in how modern citizens of democracies interact with their leaders (political or economic) with how peasants interacted with kings, emperors, and the nobility. We grumble about what they do but ultimately defer to them as masters of our fate. The only real difference is that every two or four or six or however many years we have legal recourse for our grumblings, but the existence of those other years reinforces our peasantry and allows them to co-opt our decision making.

I see this not as freedom but as a stop gap measure, a half measure that makes us complacent by giving us the illusion of progress, much in the same way that unions and minimum wage give workers the illusion that they have power over employers while in fact they are a band-aid to keep us complacent while we do nothing to deal with the core problem that makes workers subservient. Representative democracy gives the people the illusion of control over their country's future, but in fact simply gives our masters a certain benefit of the doubt that they are not in fact masters so that they can continue to exploit and control as have more de jure masters through out history.

We are still slaves. The power structures still exist as they always have. We just feel better about it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discipline_and_Punish

The Batlord 11-04-2018 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2012059)

Foucault is a guy who I've become recently aware of and thought sounded very interesting. I think post-modernist philosophers would be very much up my alley but I just ordered American Power and the New Mandarins so I guess that'll have to hold on for a minute. I guess I'm finally starting my anarchist/socialist education properly or some such ****ing ****.

Edit: Eh I ordered it anyway.


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