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-   -   The root of all evil? (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/97839-root-all-evil.html)

music_collector 08-02-2022 12:26 PM

All of the above is as good an answer as any in this case.

Frownland 08-02-2022 12:41 PM

My vote would go to the mass framing moral decisions as immutable human nature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday (Post 2212816)
Without money, people would also act greedy and exploitative, for instance

What would be the benefit of greed if there's no money or barter system to incentivize amassing more than you could use yourself?

Guybrush 08-02-2022 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 2212859)
Humans are the only ones who can consciously decide to be evil, so it's I think unfair to equate our freedom of choice with the natural instincts of an animal, who does what it has to survive and endure.

Evil is a human concept that we define. If you want to, you can extend it to explain non-human animal behaviour. I actually wouldn't, but then I also don't believe evil is real. It's just a way of saying something is bad without being specific as to the whys. Generally, we are able to be specific to the whys so "evil" is mostly appropriate for comic book villains and the like. Satan is evil. He also doesn't exist.

Humans are instinctively selfish, just like other animals. If a serial killer kills for sexual gratification, that for me is an example of extreme selfishness. If you keep eating meat despite a conviction that the world would be a slightly better place If you became a vegetarian, then that, to me, is also an example of selfishness. Being stingy about the price of clothes when you know textile workers suffer is selfish.

Democracies work for people because they let most people get what they want in a way that seems reasonably fair. But it also gives our selfishness a lot of freedom, f ex. to make choices that are good for our own comfort, but that will add to the suffering of other people or future generations.

Trollheart 08-02-2022 02:34 PM

Well, sure you could debate the "nature of evil" or even whether it exists till the bovines find their way back to where they originally set off from, but that's not really the question. I framed this poll in a way that asks what do you consider to be the root of what is generally accepted as evil, and I gave examples. Sure, you could say (I disagree) that being a meat-eater is selfish - I like my meat and I HATE vegetables - but I didn't ask what's the root of selfishness? In the same way, not all evil is necessarily selfish. That's another question altogether. Selfish in one way, I guess, as you are satisfying your own needs - be they sexual, racial, territorial or financial - without considering those of others, but if I had time to think about it (about to make dinner so quick post) I would imagine there are examples of evil that are not driven by selfishness. So some of those examples you give would not, for me (and I think for most people) fall under the heading of evil as we understand it. I know you're changing the question to what is selfish, but I don't think that really helps, or applies here.

Marie Monday 08-02-2022 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 2212880)
What would be the benefit of greed if there's no money or barter system to incentivize amassing more than you could use yourself?

I was assuming there would still be some kind of barter system. I think as long as material possessions exist, so will the amassment of them for the sake of bartering

jwb 08-02-2022 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 2212890)
Well, sure you could debate the "nature of evil" or even whether it exists till the bovines find their way back to where they originally set off from, but that's not really the question. I framed this poll in a way that asks what do you consider to be the root of what is generally accepted as evil, and I gave examples. Sure, you could say (I disagree) that being a meat-eater is selfish - I like my meat and I HATE vegetables - but I didn't ask what's the root of selfishness? In the same way, not all evil is necessarily selfish. That's another question altogether. Selfish in one way, I guess, as you are satisfying your own needs - be they sexual, racial, territorial or financial - without considering those of others, but if I had time to think about it (about to make dinner so quick post) I would imagine there are examples of evil that are not driven by selfishness. So some of those examples you give would not, for me (and I think for most people) fall under the heading of evil as we understand it. I know you're changing the question to what is selfish, but I don't think that really helps, or applies here.

yeah you can do evil without necessarily just doing it for what we would call purely selfish reasons in terms of status etc. Someone can be motivated by an ideology to do evil and be so dedicated to it they will actually make sacrifices for it. Like Osama didn't need to turn to extremism, he had a pampered life in Saudi Arabia and ended up living out of caves in Afghanistan.

Obviously whether what he did was even evil is a matter of interpretation. But for whatever category of behavior you categorize as evil there's gonna be a variety of potential sources and not one singular root of all evil.

Guybrush 08-02-2022 03:46 PM

If you do "evil" for non-selfish reasons, then someone will probably think you're doing good. It becomes a matter of interpretation. Some see a terrorist. Others may see a holy warrior fighting a great evil.

jwb 08-02-2022 03:59 PM

People thought the Nazis were good too. Why is it that if a different culture or whatever thinks it's good that's not evil but if it's just one individual psycho who thinks it's good then it is?

Ayn Marx 08-02-2022 04:16 PM

If we’re honest about being members of the human species we need to face three aspects of this question.

1. Something termed ‘human nature’.

2. Religious & political systems and anything that can be categorised as ‘groupthink’.

3. The most complex of all, mental illness.

Our greatest threat however is what we are.

Frownland 08-02-2022 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday (Post 2212891)
I was assuming there would still be some kind of barter system. I think as long as material possessions exist, so will the amassment of them for the sake of bartering

That's fair, but I think the blame falls more on systems that reinforces exploitation.


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