its her fault if shes dressed like a whore i mean what do u even expect dressing like a slut?? then ur mad when guys try to have sex witth u?? WTF!!!

Are you seriously justifying rape because of the way women dress? Women should be able to dress however they want. If you get provoked then it's your horny problem.

If he had been done for rape then it would be all over my high school and I can guarantee everyone would say it's my own fault.

If you'd stop being such a Lolita and tempting older guys with your feminine wilds then you wouldn't get accused of it being your fault.

So it is my fault then? Am I slut for luring older men?

Exactly, but given it would have been considered statutory rape, you would be a victim and according to the opinions of this thread - it would in no way have been your fault.

I'm only teasing you. You didn't pick up on the language I was using to make it light hearted. Maybe I should have gone into more extreme detail.

Sorry bb I'm kind of wasted and just off to party whoop! We are going to smoke some sheesha.

The initial question's a no-brainer for me. It's 100% not on the victim and anyone who says otherwise is a bastard blah blah blah you all know how it goes. The way the law works in regards to minors is a bit odder though. From what I've gathered the age of consent in the US is 18 but if both the participants are between 16 and 18 neither is considered a rapist? I think the system in the UK has an age of consent of 16 but say if two 15 year olds had sex they would both be considered rapists which is just bizarre.

Yeah, over here it's something like, if a male has sex with a woman under 16 (but over 13), even if they are willing as in Vanilla's case then it's sexual assault, but if an older female sleeps with a boy under 16 then it's only indecent assault and is a lesser offence. Seems a bit bull**** to me but there we go. If two under 16 year olds have sex, I guess they might be termed rapists, but they'll not really get into any bother about it, illegal but not enforced.

On topic, its never the victims fault, obviously. Rapists are scum. However things like staying with groups of friends, not walking home alone etc will in some cases factor in to the rape "scenario" but the same can be said for avoiding trouble in general (i don't include the dressing slutty bull**** because imo rapists are looking to take advantage of situations where they feel "empowered" they don't just get a whiff of skirt and decide on the day, but maybe I'm wrong). It shouldn't be the case but, unfortunately, it is. Some comments along those lines can draw the "victim blaming" tag, but I don't really think they are.

It's interesting in the cases of men or boys being raped by other men, it's never even in consideration whether or not they were wearing something that would make them "ask for it." In the case of women, however, the first question is always, "were you wearing something that could make you a target?"

It is always, always, always the fault of the rapist. No exceptions.

Yes, one of society's many double standards.

Here's something I think could spawn further intense discussion:

When a woman is intoxicated, her word is not to be taken as consent. When a man and a woman are intoxicated, the responsibility falls on the man. Should or shouldn't dual-intoxication cancel actions out? Why or why not?

It's weird when the clothing comes into question, because from what I've heard on a lot of crime shows and all that stuff, rape almost always seems to be more about dominance and power than about sex. So I'd think it'd be more of a matter of the woman being vulnerable than looking "sexy", per se, but who knows. I certainly don't. I actually think I remember Oprah saying something along those lines when she was talking about her own personal experience. I think she said, "It's not about sex. It's about power." That was the first time I ever heard that before. I always thought they were committed by horny guys that can't control themselves. Of course, I'm sure there are plenty of occasions that are like that, but I'd think if a woman clearly wanted to stop that they'd stop. I'd think there would always have to be some kind of underlying want of dominance, or affinity for sadism.

I want to know who voted YES and why aren't they saying anything? Is it just trolls?

The people that voted yes, just did so out of spite and to go against the norm.

Also most likely just to troll as well.

I know I did that in the other poll about women being funny. I voted No just for shits and giggles but I don't honestly believe that.

I'm the funniest bitch u know

debatable.

I think Stephs got you beat. Sorry :P

Steph's a woman
I'm not

GOT U THERE

Boo with your trick questions!

Flee from my presence plus I'm just waking up from a nap not too long ago.

I find in situations sexual display of clothing can really attract men aggressively. Once there is some sort of rejection, men exercise their power to show sexual dominance. So I agree with what you said. Just thought I'd bring some sort of understanding to the link.

This is a rather disturbing thread to be honest. Any argument about clothing or sobriety have no affect on the fact that the rapist is always the one who willingly makes decisions during the vile acts they commit.

The problem here is that people take statements like 'the risk could be minimised by not walking through high crime areas late at night/not being pissed as a fart' or other stuff like that as OMG THAT'S VICTIMBLAMING!!11

I can't be arsed to discuss whether x precaution minimises rape or not* but there is a difference between outright blaming someone for something and stating an opinion as to minimizing risk or whatever and people need to realise this instead of getting so offended.

If you're in a high crime area late at night you're more likely to be a victim of crime. This is a fact. Does it mean you're to blame? No, not really.

*For dress code specifically I don't know if it has any effect at all. People are quick to say rape is about power which is fair enough. I don't think it's as black and white as that though. Several factors can overlap and motivate someone to rape imo, think Jeffrey Dahmer said he would actually pick his victims based on appearance so it's not unreasonable to say some rapists are motivated by attraction (as well as other things).

In the real world, very few people 'blame' the victim.

I typed a long post re: Jeremy Forrest and this country's attitude to nonces and decided I just couldn't be arsed.

My internet sucks and multi quote isnt working


anyways, i think it's stupid that a drunk woman's word cant be taken as consent. So is anyone who has ****ed a drunk girl a rapist?? probably like 90% of men are technically rapists in one way or another because of how rape is ldefined. lol i dont get it, ive been drunk hundreds of times and can make decisions on whether or not i want to have sex. im guessing theres probably been so many cases of a woman claiming rape following consensual drunk sex and that angers me. those people blow.


i think the legality of prostitution is similar to legalizing marijuana. the general public seems to support it, it makes sense on pretty much every front, the pros outweigh the cons, etc. its just a political thing, nobody is willing to gamble their career on a policy that likely doesnt effect them whatsoever,

i think user lateralus said something about 16 year olds. either way we only draw a legal boundary at 18 because we have to do it somewhere which i understand. Of course everyone matures at a different rate and nobody can say when a person can make choices like sex reasoably. Realyl though i dont think i am comfortable with someone being locked up for long periods of time for consensual sex with a 16ish year old. im just not sure its that big of a deal.



fluffy kittens brought up such a great point about victim blaming and i agree. I think that happens a lot and it's part of some sort of pseudo-outrage that people pretend to have for whatever reason. I've read thing suggesting that rape victims shouldnt be questioned by police and stuff right after a rape too which is kind of absurd. it seems to me like people will have you believe that victim blaming happens much more than it really does.

Ched Evans. That case genuinely angered me.

Ched Evans Was Wrongly Convicted of Rape on 20th April 2012 | Ched Evans Official Website

Key and Undisputed Facts

Read through it, it's a fucking farce. There was another one the other day whereby a woman slashed herself in the face with a knife after claiming her taxi driver had raped and attacked her. He was saved by the fact he recorded the journey on his phone. If he hadn't, then who knows what would have happened. I could post numerous examples of this within the last year if I was really arsed about it but I can't be bothered, but basically this shit happens all the time now.

lol this is exactly what happens, this 'victim blaming' shit is an online phenomena and doesn't actually happen in the real world.

Were people actually saying it was her fault though or just that it was stupid? I have no problem with the latter.

lol, two British tourists did something very similar to this, they went to a run down part of Florida, walked home at stupid o'clock and got killed. Florida Britons shot dead for refusing to pay mugger, court hears | World news | The Guardian

Awful crime but they are stupid cunts. I'm of a similar opinion with that lady but more so with these. If you're going to an unfamiliar place you should know what you're doing. You can say people shouldn't rape/rob/kill until the cows come home but fact is, people do and we do not live in a fantasy world. The reality is we live among sick people and if you take silly risks you can pay the ultimate price.

I guess the people making these comments were insinuating it was her fault since she was doing something stupid. Yes, I agree it is stupid walking home alone in the middle of the night but no, I don't think this makes the rape/murder her fault.

I get what you're saying, not trying to be an arsehole but this is basically the point I'm making, maybe that is the case but this is ambiguous at best and I don't buy into this 'victim blaming' shtick being common enough to get upset over based off of that. Someone points out doing x was stupid and then people just respond with a load of 'rape is not the victim's fault', even though nobody said it was, is it actually happening or are we just pretending it's happening? I don't see why people think there should only be an outpouring of grief and anger when something like this happens and anything else is off limits. If she was being stupid, people are obviously gonna point that out. Doesn't mean it's her fault or that people are saying it's her fault.

Ched Evans is a stupid cunt as well.

i agree Fluffy Kittens that victim blaming is one of several things that is more of an internet sensation than actually happening in the real world. i think things like social media and especially twitter make it easy to fool people into thinking somethin is more prevalent than it really is. you also reminded me of a video of a cab driver who was driving a few drunk girls who refused to pay the fare and then claimed he sexually assaulted them but luckily his camera was rolling.

These are just three quotes I found from a quick Google search of news articles and comments from when the incident happened. (The Age, The Australian, No Cookies | Herald Sun).

Of course when the incident happened there were many more comments following by members of the public, talkback radio etc, but I don't have the time to track them down right now.

Clearly these comments are not only indicating that what Jill did was stupid, but they are also victim blaming her, i.e. suggesting the crime is somewhat of her fault. This is what victim blaming is. Like I said, I too agree that walking home unaccompanied in the middle of the night is not the smartest thing to do. But I do not agree that the rape/murder was in ANY way her fault. And I do also think that comments like these ARE of victim blaming nature.

Yeah those second two are stupid, I can see why people would have an issue with those, first one just sounds like a dumbass trying to counter something and makes himself sound like a knob.

lol at even taking these people seriously or getting wound up by them when they can't even write correctly in their own language though. That's without even considering that the internet and stories like these are a troll's wet dream. Nobody in the real world thinks like this. Nobody reasonable anyway.

Grief junkies and moral warriors love Twitter. It's a competition on there to see who can be the most righteous or pay tribute first. I remember when Gaddafi died and some no-mark celebrity tweeted 'RIP Gaddafi', obviously without knowing who he was ffs :D

While this is true (I agree with your completely about the stupidity of their comments, poor spelling, and just downright ignorance) it's sad that when this incident happened these kinds of comments floating around were not as uncommon as you'd hope :(

Anyway, I totally get what you mean about people taking others' comments the wrong way and assuming them to be victim-blaming when they aren't really... people can be very defensive.

Fluffy, agree with that and several of your other points esp about jumping on the "no blame" bandwagon. I got into a long discussion with a female friend of mine over the whole "dangerous areas" thing. These things shouldn't happen, but they do, it's a fact of life. An example I gave was when I was out in Kenya at 16 with other school/college kids, we were told not to go onto the beach at night because in all likelihood we would be raped and/or mugged with the possibility of death. Needless to say nobody did. Now if people had gone before being warned when they were ignorant of such danger, there could be no "blame" attached. After said conversation, if someone had gone out onto the beach and been raped it would have still been a horrific crime, but I could our guide saying simply said "I told you so". Brutal, but this is their world. Whilst I wouldn't blame any victim-in some circumstances (and I stress some) the risk can be lessened.

Although I'm not quite sure victim blaming is entirely an internet sensation? I come across similar comments a fair amount, in social groups or places. Some people could well be "trolling" in real life, some definitely aren't. Nobody comes out on national television and says the same thing they would behind a keyboard, or over a quiet pint, but they still believe it.

See that's the thing, yes there may be some trolls but there are legitimately people in the real world that thinks that way. To just completely brush it off and say "oh it's just an internet thing" isn't exactly realistic.

Edit: Ooops I didn't see that Newkie beat me to saying pretty much the same thing in more detail.

I can only go by what I've seen and heard myself, I find most people are decent enough to not think that. I've no doubt some people do think like this but it's the reasoning of a thick cunt who doesn't deserve to be taken seriously and isn't worth getting wound up over. You definitely encounter it way more on the internet, ofc people are more reserved in real life but I reckon most people would have no problem saying it's the victim's fault if they really thought it. Look at groups like the EDL, they've no problem expressing their racism and xenophobia. Thick cunts are everywhere.

Also there was that fuss over the policeman saying dress code can encourage rape or whatever it was so people do say it in real life.

And you've only got to look at the witch hunts in the UK with people like Savile or when something like noncing is mentioned to see that paedophiles, rapists and general sexual deviants generate a lot of hate among society. They're hated, the vast majority of people side with the victims. Because of this I think it's a non-issue and mostly just internet wummery.

The accused should be given the same rights to anonymity as the victim until they're proven guilty.

People who make false claims should be sentenced to at least the minimum sentence that someone found guilty of rape would get.

I was raped a few years ago, but I've never told a soul nor been really angry at the dude, because I honestly feel like it was my fault.

We were both drunk and I was young; I was making out with him at the bar and in the street, we were fooling around in the taxi, I ditched all my friends and the person who was hosting me to go stay at this guy's hostel. He paid for all my drinks and the taxi and I was feeling great.

By the time we got into the bed, though, I was sobering up, and he wasn't. I offered a bj and he accepted, I hoped it would be enough to cool him off and possibly lead to a passing out situation. I tried to see past the sex-hungry drunkard because we had met earlier in the day and he was telling me a slew of things about his ex-girlfriend, their bad breakup, his recovery process, etc.

It wasn't until he refused to use a condom that I was like "no, I don't want this anymore." And he was like, "oh, come on...just a little!" and I was like, "no, seriously." But he did it anyway. I just sort of sighed and let it go, because I understood in that moment that I let things get out of hand, and I shouldn't have gone home with him.

To this day, I still believe he is a nice guy (now married with a kid) and was just a bit too drunk to realize there was no consent. I forgave him, and I actually feel bad that I put us in that situation but being a young, drunk, slutty girl. I wouldn't blame him, in this situation.

But if you said no, then he just carried on anyway, surely he knows that you didn't consent?

I've been in v. similar situations myself, pissed as a fart and trying to fuck a girl and as soon as they've said no, I stopped.

Sounds like a prick who couldn't take no for an answer tbh.

I felt bad for him, even if he is a prick. I understand pricks. I can be a prick, too, sometimes.

Not everyone handles their alcohol the same way. I've been able to stop myself as well but others don't when they are wasted like that and in the heat of the moment.

I totally agree. I also think I wasn't really being assertive enough. I wasn't sure what would happen if I started kicking and screaming, because he was a total stranger. I thought it better just to let it go, you know? But looking back on it, I should have just been like "NO!!!" and pushed him off of me. This is why I feel a bit guilty.

Yeah , I'm not going to argue with most of that and I find I do or have come into contact with people with these views more than most, for whatever reason. My main point was that it exists and that people often hide from saying what they truly believe.Even the EDL you mention do, they try to qualify their racism to give it some sense of moral righteousness and try and give it some shred of mainstream acceptance. My sister in law posts ****e about the EDL on facebook or brings it up, she will talk for hours about militant islam but on the other hand talk about how good Sikhs are for the UK. In reality I know she views most ethnicities, even other white Europeans as lesser beings but naturally that never enters the public domain. Anyway, agree that most of them online are WUMs that shouldn't be taken too seriously.

Also agree with your false rape claim, completely disgusting and those found guilty of complete falsehoods should be punished. You been following the Remy case much? Be interesting if that's another Ched Evans saga..