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We're talking about ska and reggae though, not jazz. I agree with what the historians (?) or whatever say, but the Americans still shouldn't take any mentionable credit for that music in this thread, that's my opinion. It is kind of interesting though, one of the most influential bands, The Specials, is from Britain. Most of the U.S. third wave pisses me off, but there are a few select bands that keep it traditional, that's all I care about.
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Ok, it's your opinion. We aren't specifically talking about Jazz, but yes, Jazz sets the stage for the music created by every band mentioned in this thread. But you are missing the key point here... if the Jamaicans hadn't heard our radio broadcasts and listened to our music - ska wouldn't have been created. Now, ask yourself if that logically void's US credit. Like I said, your argument is not against me... but rather against people who study this for a living and write books about the subject... Brits, Jamaicans themselves, and Americans.
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Yeah but then again, anyone with any appreciation for music was listening to the Pixies and Sonic Youth at one point.
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Aye. But not everyone with any appreciation for music is in a band - using the same licks, riffs, and style to make music of their own.
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Yes, but most genre's get 'bastardized' over time. Punk, emo, hardcore, ska...it almost seems like a natural process. There is a difference though. Indie seems to cover slightly more different styles than the term alternative did back in the 80s.
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Agreed with the bastardization point. It happens. Some people could also call that evolution or adaptation to new sounds. But I was talking about the term itself. Indie, before it turned into a genre, covered anything and everything non-mainstream. You would have to specify... like, oh, that's indie-rap, or indie-rock, indie-emo, etc etc. Alternative, before it turned into a genre, meant the same thing... it was an "alternative to mainstream music" - covered whatever genre that was out that had an underground (which was all, one would have to assume)
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Ahhh, I explained it better in the indie education thread.
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While I thoroughly enjoyed the indie education thread and thought it was well written and pretty well informed - you guys did leave out some speculations, debates on influence - and left out some truly, truly influential bands that cardboard added in later... but it was a very good thread. I would go in depth, but I just got back from Spring Break and off a long plane flight - so I'm tirreeed as helll!
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From the Indie Education Thread
By the 1990s, “indie” basically became the new buzz-word for “alternative” upon the introduction of alternative rock to mainstream radio play. “Alternative” has different implications in today’s media. It is often representative of youth angst/rebellion anthems or progressive rock and metal varieties.
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YES! And you guys touched on what I'm saying in the "What is Indie?" section. But before it became a genre or a style of music, it was a word that meant non-mainstream (for whatever reasons and not just because principles of independant artists)
I do love that thread though, wish I had been around for when it was written!