But in the professional world (fields that study music like ethnomusicology) classical music is often considered the only form of music, with a lot of people in the academic refusing to acknowledge even jazz as intelligent music. So by their viewpoint, no there is not. This is ironic to me, because I would expect those people to be open minded.

Interesting.
I haven't studied that, but in that context it begs the question... was there a such thing as music prior to pianos, trumpets, violins, etc.?
Obviously, the answer is yes.
Classical music can't define itself as the only form of music by virtue of itself if "itself" is composed of instruments inspired by, and created for, the creation of music, unless it's referring to the creation of a form of music related to its creation.
Musical expression happened long before classical music came to be.

yeah, obviously i do, considering i found your painfully self-evident and pretentious post hilarious. no shit its "specifically limited to the human perspective," so is everything else. you basically said "music is subjective," in this self-righteously wordy style you so often employ. thanks for the insight though, you're a real deep dude.

Cat poop isn't.

yes it is

That's not what my cat tells me.

Your absolutely right, and earlier music might be studied in academic fields; I'm no expert. I just know that virtually all forms of music that have cropped up in the past 100 years or so that don't fall under the classical umbrella tend to be regarded as crap (except maybe more traditional folk music from around the world, aka not jazz, rap, rock, electronica, etc). Obviously I don't agree with this statement, but it's what I learned when I looked into ethnomusicology.

Classical music isn't superior to other types of music in and of itself, though the characteristics associated with it often make it more interesting listening than a lot of what's out there. Musical complexity, variety, experimentation, and motivic development are far more prominent in classical music than than in many types of modern music. It's perhaps for this reason that I keep returning to classical music more than any other genre.

Your description of classical music lovers made me smile because it perfectly matches someone I know. He *despises* jazz and other modern music as insipid, lacking the complexity and refined structure of Bach. Rock music, he complains (with a rare show of animated disgust), is just a simplistic, repetitive "BOOM BOOM BOOM"-ing, dripping with sexuality and base emotions...to which I answer, well, *yes*, but that is part of the point of rock music!

I think he values self-control and intellectual ability, which are perhaps more evident in classical music than modern forms. He would probably say all non-classical music is like cat poop. Cat poop, however, could be considered a fine manure, so the human perspective *is* important. I certainly don't feel classical music is "better" than other types of music just because classical music may be more complex. I feel other types of music, like good cat poop, ground you more in the realities of "baser" human emotions by reminding you that inside every beautiful being is some poop.

Heh heh, CAPTAIN C, I *like* what you describe as a "self-righteous wordy style," a satisfying Bach prelude of verbiage. Yeay for deep dudes! Not only music but also other forms of human expression are subjective.

Those people drive me insane... I'll never be able to stand anyone like that. Because to be honest, I don't feel that saying classical music is the most complex music is a valid argument at all. While the vast majority of rock in terms of music theory can't approach it, jazz is very similar. But where classical focuses on crafting a masterpiece, writing each note down as it comes to you, perfecting pieces of a song slowly over time, jazz is playing something how you feel it should be played, reinterpreting the piece differently each time. The only real diference I see there is that classical music is about playing the exact same notes every time while jazz is about improvisation. I can even understand where someone could argue that most other types of music in general aren't as technically complex as classical. But jazz is, and to me it just makes those people seem like huge hypocrites.

And Partisan Ranger, that is just not true. What about experimental rock? And there are always new genres of music being created, it's just that there are so many more artists making albums rather than classical music that there is bound to be more overlapping.