I must have been completely stoned last night. Nothing I wrote makes any sense.
Basically, some douchebag made me smell something he called "sour diesel" and the stuff nearly knocked me out. From what you're saying, the guy must have been lying and it was probably fluorine or something.

Really? I'd love to see that research. In fact, I'd love to see any research that says marijuana explicitly causes any sort of absolute psychological change (not physical, physiological, or symptomatic) in every single user every time they use it. You're completely out of your element here and you seem to be trying to cover up your nonsensical viewpoints by referencing the experiences of others and your own "observations", which is complete and utter bull****. Marijuana causes the most diverse and varied responses of nearly any naturally occurring substance in the world, and it has been proven countless times that no two people can experience it the same. Sure, there are lots of commonly shared feelings and effects that stem from the act of physically ingesting the substance, but the mental stimulation that cannabis provides baffles even the most well-read scholars.

Furthermore, what does logic have anything to do with making music? Music isn't a problem to be solved, and any attempt at scientific analysis of music, or the idea that you can frame music with the same methods used to come to factual evidence, is void because music predates science. Music predates all human understanding, as it is one of the most natural and uncomplicated things on Earth. Your claim that the music you prefer is more "layered/complex" only makes sense in your eyes because you force man-made constructs like meter, time, rhythm, etc. on something that can never be qualitatively measured. You actively try to dissect something that shouldn't be dissected just so you can feel superior to others.

^This.

It's complete bullshit to say that pot makes you want to listen simple music or that it doesn't make layered complex music easier to dissect. I like to smoke up and listen to big band jazz (among other thing) which happens to be pretty fucking layered and complex at times, and from my experience, I can hear more of what's going on in the music. And, as I've already said before in this thread, it's definitely possible to do the same sober, it just comes naturally when your high.

The "Frank Zappa" defense really doesn't do you shit either cause it doesn't change the fact that you've still never smoked and you don't know what you're talking about.

:clap: :yeah:

To understand what I'm trying to say, you have to read the original page of the thread which makes the actual claims that more complex series of melodies were easier to interpret under the influence of weed. My point is the fact that if that were true, more layered music would be easier to identify.

Furthermore, the second half of your argument is ridiculous, and presumptuous. I never said my 'ability to dissect music' was better than anyones. I was combating the flagrantly ridiculous claim that pot somehow makes the ability to deconstruction more complex melodies easier as completely ridiculous.

I'll buy it makes you calmer, and may make music more enjoyable. But, consistently, the preference for more simple, bassy, repetitive music is commonly culturally associated with pot. Doom metal, etc. There are exceptions to this, there are people who utilize drugs as a performance aid. There are people who use it for inspiration, as well. I doubt, though, when the pen comes to the paper, and the concrete details of music need to be decided, that it's the best way to go.

I do not buy for one second pot increases, or enhances, any mental capability. Especially does not increase one's attention to detail. I say this from knowing a lot of heavy pot smokers who are under the delusion that they somehow have been mentally enhanced, and very clearly haven't. (NOT people on this forum. People on this forum are awesome pothead, or no.)

How? I don't know any potheads who like doom metal. I know from experience that Marijuana can help to understand complex music. I actually prefer to listen to more complex music like Jazz and Classical when I smoke. It takes you on a "trip". All those layers of music seem to open up more to the many layers of your mind.


I think it's because Marijuana opens your mind a little more.

well, just that. not to knock sour d, but i've had way more enjoyable sativas that don't enjoy nearly as much name recognition as it does.

it's still good, don't get me wrong. but that **** is all i hear about where i live! people are so caught up on strain names here. novice smokers always looking for some og kush or sour diesel 'cause they think it's the only good weed there is.

but of course they have no idea what to expect when they buy, and there's some pretty unscrupulous dealers out there who will rip you off if you don't know what you're doing.

I said from a cultural point of view, not a personal point of view.

Besides, I'm not saying enjoy these layers more, I'm saying distinguish these layers more. I mean, you may enjoy the whole package more, but do you really distinguish what's going on, or just utilize the experience of vastly layered music to overwhelm you further.

Does it? Don't take this the wrong way, but I've never seen you as the most open minded guy.

Well that's fine. You don't know me. Open mindedness goes a lot further into territory other than music, and I am open minded when it comes to music. The only reason you say that is because I don't electronic music, specifically the electronic music that you have posted. You've made plenty of close minded statements. For example, when you said "everything Bob Dylan did was folk norm." No offense, but I've always seen you as pompous and arrogant, and a little hypocritical, maybe if you smoked it would open your mind to the fact that you are just another person and you're not as great as you may think you are.

Being someone that has never smoked, you still want to argue about the subject? Go ahead, try to tell people who have smoked that it doesn't open your mind. Considering the fact that you have never smoked, you probably should have never got involved in this thread.

Nor did I. The point of my argument is the fact that you actually assign value to music. That you for some reason think that cultural stereotypes and your extremely limited and arbitrary sample sizes, i.e. "a lot of heavy pot smokers" you happen to know, have any bearing in intelligent discussion is utterly ridiculous. You've consistently stated that you don't think complex/layered/whatever elitist bull**** term you'd like to conjure up to defend itself isn't easier to comprehend when under the influence of marijuana, despite several members stating their own experience to prove the contrary. Not only do you actively deny the fact that JUST BECAUSE THE YOU AND THE PEOPLE YOU ASSOCIATE YOURSELF WITH CAN'T UTILIZE THE EFFECTS OF MARIJUANA TO BETTER YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF COMPLEX INFORMATION DOESN'T MEAN **** ALL FOR THE REST OF US, you also disrespect and denigrate the experiential diversity that these members put forth. There are those of us who realize that any drug can be a catalyst for self-improvement, give that its effects are conducive to mental clarity. Marijuana is no different.

"Culturally-associated" is a term so idiotic in definition it doesn't deserve to be in the English language. Your subjective idea of what is "culture" fails to take into account the infinitely varied responses marijuana use has on human beings. Who are you to assign anyone a dogmatic interpretation of their cognitive ability while under the influence of a substance you have no experience with? Are you really that vapid? That vain? To say that stoners are driven to simplistic music is stupid enough; to then try and defend it by saying it's proven by a cultural phenomenon when it so clearly has no correlation to marijuana's actual effects and could never be anything of the nature is incredible. This is a debate about if the effects of cannabis can enhance your ability to listen to music, not a debate about what people do when their high...

This is my favorite part. You do not buy the idea that marijuana stimulates the mind and body's natural processes because you don't know anything about marijuana. Cannabis contains over 80 chemicals known as cannabinoids; these chemicals are responsible for triggering such processes as neurogenesis and immunogenesis, and possess anxiolytic, analgesic, and neuroprotectant properties that can catalyze the brain to operate at a higher function. The human body is full of endocannabinoid receptors that bind to marijuana's constituents and interact to fully realize the body's hormonal and structural maintenance functions. Cannabinoids are essential to neuromodulator release, motor learning, synaptic plasticity, and the development of appetite in newborn children. Mother's breastmilk contains much of the same cannabinoids as our favorite strains of pot, and is responsible for the growth and proper functioning of an infant's brain. Still don't think marijuana has the ability to bring about mental clarity?