Just because you made the topic doesn't mean it's your decision of what goes on. I never said you couldn't analyse, but merely that this never ending over-analysis picking apart structures, choruses, verses and what or how many strokes hooks formulas equations they have = boring has made this topic more dull and dull to read. Which is quite ironic actually.

It really is. I've been thinking the same thing.

Holy crap, Jansz??? You're a friggin' ALIEN????!!! :eek:

I personally prefer long songs to short. Not all songs can pull it off though. The likes of Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin pretty much hit it on the head. It's all down to preference and genre. Pop songs, for example, should never break the 5min mark! It's just too much torture, lol!

Funny, as I saw this thread I was listening to 2112 by Rush

:laughing:

long if its good
 

I don't mind a long song if it has the right beat and the right message

:clap:

I like analysis, too, for the same reason.

I can hear what you hear in "Estranged." Additionally, I hear that it not only lacks a typical chorus (by "typical" I mean a distinct musical passage with repeated words), but also, like "November Rain," contains many short instrumental solos (six of them, with the longest occuring at 4:00) to break up the song and increase the energy. Having many short instrumental solos, therefore, is another common feature of these two longs songs that you like.

Finally, like "November Rain," "Estranged" has a few repeated lyrics but not many. One verse gets used twice in the song, and the intro (the whispered singing after the seagulls) gets repeated as a reprise around a third of the way through the song. These features weave the song together and help it feel cohesive, while the lack of repetitive lyrics makes the song feel spontaneous. Predicting what would come next lyrically and musically in the song was difficult to do. And you're right: no strings.

"Sowing the Seeds of Love" starts off interesting me...but then the song repeats its "seeds of love" chorus a whopping 24+ times before the song mercifully ends!! :laughing: If I listened to that song more than once, I'd be crawling up the walls. It's a great example of too much repetition for my tastes. Like Dominantdominion said recently in the thread, "Pop songs [...] should never break the 5 min mark! It's just too much torture, lol!"

(About why back-up singers, who can add variety and change in a long song, are so often female -- I think there are three likely reasons: (1) Many lead vocalists are male and so a higher female voice does not compete with their vocal frequency range; (2) a higher voice sounds more childlike, innocent, ethereal, and people like that "prettiness"; (3) bands like having attractive women to serve as eye-candy on stage during performances.)

* * * * *

When you find yourself starting to feel bored while reading a post, I recommend you do what I do when I begin to feel a long song is dull or unpleasant: stop and move on to something you like better.

The advantage of only spending your leisure time doing activities you find interesting, Rjinnx, is that you never inflict boredom on yourself. For example, I am never bored listening to music or reading posts here, because I only listen to songs and read posts that I enjoy. :)

By this reasoning, one could also say it is ironic that people who like long songs get bored by a detailed analysis of them.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying music without knowing why. I prefer to go beyond "I like it" or "I dislike it" to understand the reasons a song appeals to or repels people.

A song that "works" for me is like a movie that engrosses me so much that my disbelief in the story or mood it presents is suspended. When you watch a movie with your disbelief suspended, you forget you are watching a movie because you are involved in it, as if you were in the characters' minds. When something about the movie causes your attention to wander, you break out of the "trance" and realize you're sitting in the theater surrounded by strangers.

A long song is more likely to "lose" me so that I realize, instead of being absorbed in the song, that I am listening to it. A song that I deem "good" makes me feel that the emotions I hear in the song are actually there, existent...when really I'm just listening to a pattern of sound frequencies. So then I start to wonder: what causes a long song to lose my interest? What causes a long song to retain it?

I guess I'm lucky that I enjoy not only listening to music, but also thinking about it, because I get twice the joy from every song, and I can enjoy music even when I hear nothing at all. :)

* * * * *

The song "2112" by Rush actually supports the viewpoint that music truncated into increments less than 6 minutes long is more palatable, since "2112" consists of seven distinct movements unified by a storyline but differing musically from each other, the longest of which is less than five minutes long. The song even comes to a full stop after the second movement, "Temples of Syrinx" and before the movements "Oracle: The Dream" and "Soliloquy."

Rush - "2112"
I suspect Rush attempted to prevent boredom by creating distinct movements each of which lasts around 3 minutes. "2112" is an example of a long song that I dislike in part because it is musically disjointed rather than being a cohesive whole...but it's better than it would have been if Rush had taken the first movement and extended it for 20 minutes!


Rush 2112 (Full Song) - YouTube

Just my two cents here. In answer to your question, Erica, whether a song is long or short, melody is key for me. Admittedly, this is the reason why I tend to like short-to-medium songs: usually melody is better "contained" in songs of that length and there are fewer interludial passages breaking up the melody. Even if I'm listening to longer jazz tracks, for instance, melody has got to be there and returned to before too long, or else I lose focus. Maybe I just have a short attention span!

Like giving songs a chance by stopping half way?

I keep returning to my assertion that drug usage and happily listening to long songs go together. This time spurred on by mention of The E.N.D. (by The Black Eyed Peas) and in turn the mysterious popularity of club music, where many of the patrons are on something. Anyone want to admit to doing that? When under the influence, do lyrics lose importance? (I've never been under the influence, strictly speaking.)

i feel that is a rather rude assertion....i love long songs and i love lyrical content and i do not use drugs at all....

Another long song that benefits from editing: "Shout," by Tears for Fears.

Re the band's "whopping 24 times" repeating the line "Sowing the Seeds of Love," it raises the point that the simpler a refrain is, the most irritating it is likely to be as the minutes of the song go by.

Wow.

^i know right?....and he completely ignores the fact that he just generalized everyone who disagree with him....i would not be surprised if this guy thinks all black people listen to only hip hop

If his theory is true, all the progheads on this forum are stoners. >.>

Even better, all classical fans.
"Man, this symphony is so far fucking OUT!"

I see this thread has plummeted to new depths of stupidity.

This is a typical generalization by a troll. You also failed to repond when Bob challenged it.

He did? I can't find my post, and "Bob" isn't anyone's username. Anyway, I didn't say only substance-using people like long songs. I really do think there's a correlation for certain genres (maybe even mild wine intoxication for classical).

I doubt you have a short attention span! Maybe you just have to be listening to something you like in order to want to listen a long time. I like melody, too. I like a song to nestle me back up in its arms and not let me drift too far from its main themes. Thank you for your input, Liz. :)

* * *

Oh, I rarely get to the half-point of long songs if I'm listening to them solely for my own enjoyment (rather than to review them, which provides a different sort of pleasure). I usually stop much earlier than half way through. :p:

For example, Anteater posted two longs songs earlier in the thread, "Milliontown" (26 min) and "Gates of Delirium" (20 min). I only listened to 2 minutes of "Milliontown" before I felt like stopping. And I stopped listening to "Gates of Delirium" after only 20 seconds because I disliked the sound of that song so much!

Earlier in the thread, Burning Down posted the classical "Boléro" (22 min version) and "Totentanz" (15 min). I had heard shortened versions of both before and was surprised (and dismayed) that the full versions are so long. However, I was also curious if the longer versions dffered much from the shorter ones I'd heard. So I did something that I occasionally do with songs when I want to learn about them but not spend much time doing so: I listened to the songs simultaneously! :laughing:

Listening to two songs at once can work if the two songs are equally loud, but this turned out not to be the case for those two videos...so I aborted my effort at dual listening and just stopped listening entirely.

I *do* like the meditative "Boléro"...but I didn't want to listen to 22 minutes or even 11 minutes of it. I prefer this short 4:30 version to which Torvill & Dean performed in the 1984 Olympics:

Ravel - "Boléro" (Short 4:30 Version).
Ahh. :) Perfect length. And the ice skating choreography brings the song even more to life for me, especially near the tumultuous, climactic end:


Torvill & Dean Bolero - YouTube

* * *

Agreed and agreed. I've noticed, though, that with children the simpler refrains don't seem to irritate them. At least with the elementary kids I've observed, they latch onto the repetition in simple pop songs and enjoy hearing the same simple phrase over and over (and over and over) again. Here's one such song my child currently likes:

Shake it Up - "Made in Japan"
Popular with elementary school kids. The chorus "made in Japan" is repeated...twenty times. :/ Thankfully, the song only lasts 3 minutes.


Shake It Up "made in japan" (full song) + Lyrics - YouTube

Um... yes it is.

Bob is Mr.Devo man.

Or perhaps it's as simple as people just liking the genre.

I see search is case-sensitive. There is a "bob," but not in this thread.

Anyway, c'mon, there was a thread about listening while high. A few people here should be brave and admit they enjoy long songs more when under the influence. I almost guarantee that extended music listening (total time, not song time) is associated with more substance use than is occasional listening.

Um...

Yes there is, if there wasn't why would I mention you not replying to his post :bonkhead:

I'm not sure about a relationship between total music listening time and drug use (except it sounds as if LSD increases people's patience for listening to music), but it does appear that listening to long songs was historically associated with drug use at least within the psychedelic rock genre.

According to an article about The Grateful Dead:

Another source says, "Most psychedelic music shares similar musical characteristics: long songs, electric guitar freakouts, hallucinatory lyrics, and terrible cover art." :) Narcotica: Taking Drugs to Make Music to Take Drugs To « The Bygone Bureau

So this suggests that people who aren't using psychedelic drugs may be less likely than drug-users to enjoy long psychedelic rock songs. Now I know why I don't like "electric guitar freakouts," most hallucinatory lyrics, and all music I've heard by The Grateful Dead! ;)

Alright, thanks, that supports my assertion. Of course I'd known about Deadheads being drug users. Pink Floyd has a drug-associated reputation, too, and originally was a psychedelic rock band. But it evolved to make some quality long songs.

Yes, "bob." with a period. Anyway, I meant the first time I brought up drugs and song length - either it was ignored then or I have to find that post and check.

Being "stoned" includes being lethargic, right? So doesn't that increase de facto patience?

No.

I've never used drugs and I have enjoyed long songs for as long as I can remember.

You are way behind now so you'd be better off just saying quits and letting this thread die peacefully.

The Effects of Marijuana on Consciousness

Just part of the goodness from http://www.psychedelic-library.org/tart7.htm

I suppose if someone is high and focuses on music, that would increase appreciation of long material that isn't utter cr*p - but it will remain but a suspicion until I come across more direct commentary.

(I dislike stoners, so I'd like to test my theory by locking one of them in a room for an hour with The E.N.D. as the only audio :jailed:)

I can't believe this thread is still going...