VMAs 2013

The Batlord · 08-29-2013, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by misspoptart

I couldn't disagree more, but that discussion should happen in a different thread. I firmly believe anyone who thinks Madonna is overrated hasn't listened to her albums Ray of Light or Music from top to bottom.

Have you?

I didn't get to watch the VMAs (Turkey...time difference...blah blah blah)...and my computer is too stupid to function on the MTV website for some reason. Does anybody know a place where I could watch the whole show?

Also, from the vids I've seen so far, all I can say is the N*SYNC "reunion" was WAY too short. I don't know who's idea that was but they ****ed up a once in a lifetime opportunity.

I love Ray of Light and I love Erotica, but I've discovered that a lot of her other stuff is very hit or miss with me. She's just got too much eighties in her for me sometimes. I love pop, but eighties pop can just bore the **** out of me sometimes. I'm not even that big a fan of Michael Jackson honestly.

FRED HALE SR. · 08-29-2013, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

I respectfully disagree about the aging of the videos. Obviously quality and make-up and everything is better, but it's still good now, and will always be great.

Regarding choreography, I also disagree. MJ would never have danced as poorly as JT did at the VMAs. Idk if he was uncomfortable or didn't feel like dancing, but his moves were NOT the best.

You just said its good now and will always be great, which is it?

MJ never had to dance on anything but a square stage, he never went across a stage that went into the crowd and had various step levels. I honestly can't beleive i'm even talking about the VMAS in 2013 makes me feel my age.

We shall respectfully disagree on this. You got some moxy girl.

FRED HALE SR. · 08-29-2013, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I love Ray of Light and I love Erotica, but I've discovered that a lot of her other stuff is very hit or miss with me. She's just got too much eighties in her for me sometimes. I love pop, but eighties pop can just bore the **** out of me sometimes. I'm not even that big a fan of Michael Jackson honestly.

I can't honestly say i've heard anything but one track on Ray Of Light, it was the video with her in the cowboy hat. When I think Madonna I always think of her 80's output. I think her most creative album was her second, which was produced by Niles Rodgers. I always liked Borderline, Live To Tell and especially Dress You Up which was on the Rodgers produced album. I think for all her antics she was actually a very decent pop vocalist and her stage shows were always so extravagant you couldn't help but watch her shows and think it was anything but fun to watch. I went with a girl from school to one of her shows ages ago and while not my cup of tea, I came away impressed with her stage presence and voice.

Arya Stark · 08-29-2013, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

You just said its good now and will always be great, which is it?

MJ never had to dance on anything but a square stage, he never went across a stage that went into the crowd and had various step levels. I honestly can't beleive i'm even talking about the VMAS in 2013 makes me feel my age.

We shall respectfully disagree on this. You got some moxy girl.

Hahaha, I meant that it's still good now and will continue to be!
Glad to respectfully disagree! :]

~~Soulflower~~ · 08-29-2013, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

ugh I know I said I wouldn't respond to you again but I have to go against that to include some things that you don't get.

Just because Michael Jackson's name is on it doesn't mean that people who receive the award have to live up to his standards. It is an award that's given to the most popular and acclaimed music videos in MTV history. Says it right there on the wikipedia page. That's fine if you want to discredit all the videos that the Princess of Pop Britney Spears has put out and also all the music videos that Justin Timberlake has put out through his solo career AND with N'Sync but MTV recognizes it even if you choose to ignore all of their videos as insignificant. People that grew up with those videos and actually LIKED them will remember them 50 years from now regardless of what you think.

DJ I luv you lol I actually like debating with you because you are one of my favorites here but I disagree with you on this.

They dont necessarily have to live up to MJ standards specifically but the past recipients have made iconic game changing music videos. I dont even think all of Janets music videos are on the same level as Michael same with Madonna but they have more than a handful of iconic music videos that warrants them winning this award.

I am not "discrediting" them or their videos. I just dont think they have made any groundbreaking videos that have made a profound impact on MTV or pop culture. When I think of this award I think of artists who have made game changing videos that still influence today and believe it or not that is why the award is named after Michael Jackson because they believe the winners in some way modeled off that same level of creativity and influence which I feel Brittany nor Justin have.

I am not ignoring their videos. I dont remember any of their videos and I dont think their videos have made a significant impact on pop culture.

But thats my opinion and if you think other wise so be it.

~~Soulflower~~ · 08-29-2013, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

Well thought out response. I'll consider this a win for Timberlake.

I responded with that gif because I think your arguement is laughable and utterly ridiculous.

The fact that you had the audacity to say that Justin sings as well as dances on the same level of Michael Jackson speaks volumes... Justin has a very average voice and he is a very average dancer. He is a dime a dozen. Michael was not..

Michael innovated the music video into what it is today and created the short film. That was something that had not been done before his time. He also implemented rehearsed choregraphy in the videos as well. Michael came up with the choregraphies and the ideas for the direction of his music videos. You named dropped only three videos but Michael has about 10 music videos deep that are Iconic and groundbreaking.

This comparision is silly and I am not even going to go any further with it because Justin is no where in the same conversation as Michael Jackson.

Justin knows himself he did not deserve that award and publicly stated it when Jimmy Fallon handed to him.

~~Soulflower~~ · 08-29-2013, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

You just said its good now and will always be great, which is it?

MJ never had to dance on anything but a square stage, he never went across a stage that went into the crowd and had various step levels. I honestly can't beleive i'm even talking about the VMAS in 2013 makes me feel my age.

We shall respectfully disagree on this. You got some moxy girl.

Michael has danced on a CAR--- check out the Black or White music video black pather version

Michael has danced on a piano- check out the 1984 Victory Tour

Michael has danced on a flying machine- Check out Dangerous and History Tours

Michael has danced on the street

Michael has danced in the rain

Michael has danced into the crowd

Michael has danced on steps- check out Jackson variety shows

Michael has danced on the table/stairs- check out You Rock My World video, Smooth Criminal

Michael has danced on various levels of a stage- check out 1983 pepsi commercial (hair got caught on fire)

Michael did complicated footwork and 50 million spins on these props and in the crowd.

Justin can NOT dance at all....

~~Soulflower~~ · 08-29-2013, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

I think it explained his response perfectly! I can imagine you saying, perhaps, that JT is good enough to receive the award, but not bashing anything that MJ has done! His stuff had a story and a progression, you don't get that too often these days. And if you do, they aren't as throught-out as his. Yeah he was screaming in a warehouse or garage or whatever but the dancing was always perfect. JT dances, but he doesn't always meet ALL the points MJ's videos did.

lol I am a girl

FRED HALE SR. · 08-29-2013, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by realtalk92

I responded with that gif because I think your arguement is laughable and utterly ridiculous.

The fact that you had the audacity to say that Justin sings as well as dances on the same level of Michael Jackson speaks volumes... Justin has a very average voice and he is a very average dancer. He is a dime a dozen. Michael was not..

Michael innovated the music video into what it is today and created the short film. That was something that had not been done before his time. He also implemented rehearsed choregraphy in the videos as well. Michael came up with the choregraphies and the ideas for the direction of his music videos. You named dropped only three videos but Michael has about 10 music videos deep that are Iconic and groundbreaking.

This comparision is silly and I am not even going to go any further with it because Justin is no where in the same conversation as Michael Jackson.

Justin knows himself he did not deserve that award and publicly stated it when Jimmy Fallon handed to him.

Its laughable to you. I actually do believe he sings as well as Jackson, and your opinion that he does not is just that your opinion. Hes a dime a dozen, but yet hes arguably the most popular pop singer of the new millenium, sure that makes sense.

He created the short film? And while you discredit JT he actually won just as many times for the choreography in his videos as MJ did, twice. Thriller was actually co-choreographed with Michael Peters. And the second was not even choreographed by him.

Which 10 videos were so groundbreaking by MJ that you couldn't even list them? The comparison is silly to you, because you've got MJ glasses on, but hey i'm not here to bash MJ, Hes up there with Elvis in icon status and he earned it. That just shows that JT is humble enough to accept the award.

~~Soulflower~~ · 08-29-2013, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR.

Its laughable to you. I actually do believe he sings as well as Jackson, and your opinion that he does not is just that your opinion. Hes a dime a dozen, but yet hes arguably the most popular pop singer of the new millenium, sure that makes sense.

He created the short film? And while you discredit JT he actually won just as many times for the choreography in his videos as MJ did, twice. Thriller was actually co-choreographed with Michael Peters. And the second was not even choreographed by him.

Which 10 videos were so groundbreaking by MJ that you couldn't even list them? The comparison is silly to you, because you've got MJ glasses on, but hey i'm not here to bash MJ, Hes up there with Elvis in icon status and he earned it. That just shows that JT is humble enough to accept the award.

Okay

If that is your opinion so be it. I dont think you have listened to enough Michael Jackson because Justin has a very limited range in comparision to MJ who had a variety of singing styles and a much broader range. I am not calling MJ the best singer in the world but he had a stronger range than JT and was a much better singer. He also displayed emotion in his singing and not as robotic as JT is.

Before Michael Jacksons videos for Thriller, music videos did not have rehearsed choreography or story plots. Yes, He DID innovate and enhance the music video medium which is why that award is named after him.

Awards dont mean anything if their is no merit to speak for the award. Justin could win 60 million choreography awards but if the choreography is not creative or iconic then it means nothing so that was a weak arguement.

MJ won those awards but he actually EARNED those awards and he has the iconic choreography to speak for it.
When you think of Billie Jean, Smooth Criminal, Thriller etc you INSTANTLY you know the choreography for those songs. What choreography that JT has that are iconic???

I can not believe I am comparing these two artists that should not even be compared lol

The comparision is silly to me because JT is not in the same category as MJ which you are ridiculously trying to argue. I think its insulting to MJs talent and all that he had accomplished.

Thriller
Beat It
Smooth Criminal
Moonwalker
Billie Jean
Man In The Mirror
Dirty Diana
BAD
The Way You Make Me Feel
Leave Me Alone
Remember The Time
JAM
Scream

He has a couple more but these are the universal ones.