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-   -   Opposite Gender Covers? (https://www.musicbanter.com/general-music/77746-opposite-gender-covers.html)

Janszoon 06-27-2014 04:42 AM

I don't understand why it would be an issue. Singers often sing lyrics where they're expressing the words of a character rather than being autobiographical. How is this any different than that?

GD 06-27-2014 12:52 PM

I really think this depends on the song, as in both methods are acceptable, but changing the pronouns may suit some songs better than others.

In other words I'm going with the beads for this poll.

Lisnaholic 06-28-2014 07:23 AM

I think it`s mainly dj and Carpe M who are saying "Go ahead and change the lyrics" and I`d agree with them.

Firstly, gender changes are not always about appeasing homophobics as some posters seem to`ve assumed. As Carpe demonstrates with her well-chosen examples, it`s about how convincing the song sounds.

Secondly, isn`t the whole point of doing a cover song to put something of yourself into the original ? Musically and lyrically, a slavish imitation of the original is a pretty sterile exercise imo. No need to treat song lyrics like Moses treated the word of God; I say change lyrics around as much as you like and let time -or the public- decide if it`s an improvement or a travesty. In effect, what dj said.

Usually I like a vocalist to sound sincere and sometimes a gender change helps that along. As Janszoon mentions, there are plenty of songs in which the singer adopts the voice of a different persona, but my suspicion is that those are less common and often less powerful than the confessional "this is the real me" song. Which rather brings us back to this thread:-
http://www.musicbanter.com/general-m...-matter-3.html

Janszoon 06-28-2014 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic (Post 1464626)
I think it`s mainly dj and Carpe M who are saying "Go ahead and change the lyrics" and I`d agree with them.

Firstly, gender changes are not always about appeasing homophobics as some posters seem to`ve assumed. As Carpe demonstrates with her well-chosen examples, it`s about how convincing the song sounds.

Secondly, isn`t the whole point of doing a cover song to put something of yourself into the original ? Musically and lyrically, a slavish imitation of the original is a pretty sterile exercise imo. No need to treat song lyrics like Moses treated the word of God; I say change lyrics around as much as you like and let time -or the public- decide if it`s an improvement or a travesty. In effect, what dj said.

A song with a male voice singing what was originally sung by a female voice or vice versa is, by its very nature, not a slavish imitation of the original though. And keeping the lyrics the same while changing the gender of the singer is potentially more of a change to the context and meaning of the lyrics than switching them.

I'm not opposed to changing the lyrics by the way, I'm just saying I don't think it's a big deal or find it distracting if they stay the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic (Post 1464626)
Usually I like a vocalist to sound sincere and sometimes a gender change helps that along. As Janszoon mentions, there are plenty of songs in which the singer adopts the voice of a different persona, but my suspicion is that those are less common and often less powerful than the confessional "this is the real me" song. Which rather brings us back to this thread:-
http://www.musicbanter.com/general-m...-matter-3.html

I think one can tell a powerful and sincere fictional story without pretending it's autobiographical. Some of my favorite lyricists—people like Nick Cave and Tom Waits—have made careers out of doing this. We don't question the sincerity of the emotions in a film just because it's not a documentary about the director's life. We don't question the sincerity of the emotions in a novel just because it's not a memoir. I've never understood why there's this weird double standard that's so often applied to song lyrics.

Lisnaholic 06-28-2014 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1464630)
A song with a male voice singing what was originally sung by a female voice or vice versa is, by its very nature, not a slavish imitation of the original though.

^ That`s a good point that didn`t occur to me.
Quote:

And keeping the lyrics the same while changing the gender of the singer is potentially more of a change to the context and meaning of the lyrics than switching them.
^ I didn`t really consider that either. You`re saying that a song that (typically) celebrates heterosexual love is deliberately re-used to suggest homosexual love, right? Yes, I can see that as being quite effective.


"... there are plenty of songs in which the singer adopts the voice of a different persona, but my suspicion is that those are less common and often less powerful than the confessional "this is the real me" song. " It did occur to me that this was a rather monstrous generalisation, so you`re quite right to be picking me up on it! :laughing: :-
Quote:

I think one can tell a powerful and sincere fictional story without pretending it's autobiographical. Some of my favorite lyricists—people like Nick Cave and Tom Waits—have made careers out of doing this. We don't question the sincerity of the emotions in a film just because it's not a documentary about the director's life. We don't question the sincerity of the emotions in a novel just because it's not a memoir. I've never understood why there's this weird double standard that's so often applied to song lyrics.
^ I thought about this myself for a while, and in my case I think it`s connected partly to my expectations and partly to how the material is presented:

Watch a movie or open a novel and usually I am already thinking, "Ok, I want to hear a story", but that`s not my usual plan when I listen to music. Maybe my attitude is more, "Ok, tell it like it is."
In terms of presentation, I think there`s a significant difference here: in a movie or a novel, you can lose yourself in the story and forget the director or novelist if you want. At one level, they are just a name in the credits. A singer`s presence is harder to ignore, though; it`s very clear who is delivering the material and sometimes that works as a restraint; it`s not so easy to make an imaginative leap of the kind that seems so natural with books and movies. That is not to deny though, that there are many great songs involving empathy/imagination or interpretation of someone else`s experience...maybe I need to type less and think more on this topic!!

Sansa Stark 06-28-2014 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hate paper doll (Post 1464328)
I love the Raincoats cover of Lola, I don't even think about the gender difference.

yasss I love that cover sfm. I feel the same way about the Slits' cover of I Heard It Through the Grapevine.

I like it MORE when they keep the original pronouns because to me it's the musical version of no homo to think it's mandatory to make the pronouns heteronormative. It's almost like being represented in media!

Kid Flip 06-30-2014 11:42 PM

It really depends on the artist, and song being covered.


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