What is music, what is not?

Neapolitan · 12-25-2014, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordwyr

Silence does exist, just not in our material reality that we know.

There is a concept of 'silence' but in reality there is no such thing as 'silence' in the physical universe just like there are no straight lines or corners in the physical universe.

Zhanteimi · 12-26-2014, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

The point of the piece is that we should understand that there really is a lot going on within a supposed silence. Since we will never be outside of that experience, we will never know silence. This gives the piece noise in some sense because there will be a listener who inherently makes noise with their bodily functions.

Cool. It's that, then, but not music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine

Many compositions are just field recordings, and I didn't specify but lowercase is electronically manipulated field recordings.

Then they aren't music, unless they're then put together as music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overcast

Natural sounds of nature such as rain, bird song, wind chimes, leaves rustling, rivers flowing and all that stuff is some of the most beautiful stuff I've heard.

Other than bird song, that's not music, no matter how beautiful it is. It can be incorporated into a larger body of music, but it doesn't stand as music on its own.

**Frownland** · 12-26-2014, 12:42 AM

I still don't understand why, man. If it's an astounding body of auditory beauty on it's own, why is not music? Why is birdsong the one exception? Because it has song in the title? I mean, appreciating it, appreciating it as a musical medium, and liking it...are they they same thing?

Windsong, telephonewiresong, speechsong, ambientnoisesong...are those music?

Imagine if the tables were turned. You were the artist, not the listener. Someone says "fuck no man, it's not even music!" Would that discredit your stance as music even though incredibly intelligent, sexy, and inspiring people such as myself are like "well I mean I guess it's music, but it sucks Beelzebob's anus, for quite a long time." Obviously a ridiculous example (even if it reminds me of 4'33"

), but could still be theoretically applicable.

But seriously, why should a listener be the one who decides whether something is music or not when they put no work into the piece? Sure, it might suck, but fuck, it's still some shite music to begin with. I don't go around saying a Kenny G solo saxophone album isn't music because nothing is happening, it doesn't interest me in the slightest, and makes absolute (and nonexistant) silence preferable (for a man who thrives on music), I'm still going to say that it's music.

Zhanteimi · 12-26-2014, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

I still don't understand why, man. If it's an astounding body of auditory beauty on it's own, why is not music? Why is birdsong the one exception? Because it has song in the title? I mean, appreciating it, appreciating it as a musical medium, and liking it...are they they same thing?

Just because it's beautiful doesn't mean it's music, and vice versa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Windsong, telephonewiresong, speechsong, ambientnoisesong...are those music?

What are those?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Imagine if the tables were turned. You were the artist, not the listener. Someone says "fuck no man, it's not even music!" Would that discredit your stance as music even though incredibly intelligent, sexy, and inspiring people such as myself are like "well I mean I guess it's music, but it sucks Beelzebob's anus, for a long time." Obviously a ridiculous example (even if it reminds me of 4'33"

), but could still be theoretically applicable.

I wouldn't care what other people think. And if I did, I'd have to address my self-esteem issues before I could move on with my life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

But seriously, why should a listener be the one who decides whether something is music or not when they put no work into the piece? Sure, it might suck, but fuck, it's still some shite music to begin with. I don't go around saying a Kenny G solo saxophone album isn't music because nothing is happening, it doesn't interest me in the slightest, and makes absolute (and nonexistant) silence preferable (for a man who thrives on music), I'm still going to say that it's music.

I said nothing about non-music sucking. I just said it's not music. Nothing personal. I, too, love the sound of water, for example. Often when I trip, I listen to music, but one time, when I went to the seaside, I put down my Walkman, walked out to the end of the empty pier, and said to myself, "Today, the sea is my music."

...of course, it was a metaphor. The sea isn't really music; I was drawing my attention to the beauty of the sea by comparing it to something it is not.

**Frownland** · 12-26-2014, 12:55 AM

Never said you said it sucked, just say it sucks if you don't like it. Or at very least say it's an approach to music you're not sure about. Because it IS music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordwyr

\Often when I trip, I listen to music, but one time, when I went to the seaside, I put down my Walkman, walked out to the end of the empty pier, and said to myself, "Today, the sea is my music."

...of course, it was a metaphor. The sea isn't really music; I was drawing my attention to the beauty of the sea by comparing it to something it is not.

And drawing your attention to the beauty of the auditory experience that the sea has to offer is an equivalent to drawing attention (or pleasure) to the auditory experience that music has to offer. Really, if you can find beauty within sound, that is music. I'm very happy that you're able to find those sounds beautiful, but I really hope you can one day find them to be music.

#nottalkingdownonyoubuttotallytalkingdownonyou

But really though, what is your answer to the OP? IDK if I missed it or not.

Zhanteimi · 12-26-2014, 12:56 AM

Finding beauty in a sound is not what defines it as music.

What's the OP? I just jumped in the middle.

Machine · 12-26-2014, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine

There have been many bands that have pushed the boundaries of what we consider to be music, and many people have also put music into a box of what it can and cannot be. So my question to you fellow music lovers is where is the line drawn? When do we say music has to stop evolving? And just what defines something that is indeed pushing the boundaries. Is music all forms of audio, or does it go farther, or in fact are these types of audio-stimuli but into boxes that may not be broken?

Here you are for the OP

**Frownland** · 12-26-2014, 01:01 AM

Or, more concisely (not in the Larehipian sense): what is music? Is there anything that isn't music?

Zhanteimi · 12-26-2014, 01:02 AM

Cheers!

Music is not all forms of audio. Forms of audio (found sounds etc) can be incorporated into music, but they do not stand as music on their own.

The line is drawn when someone tries to push something off as music when it is not, like someone just recording the sound of the sea and not adding any music to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Or, more concisely (not in the Larehipian sense): what is music? Is there anything that isn't music?

What's the Larehipian sense?

DeadChannel · 12-26-2014, 01:07 AM

What if I manipulated the recording equipment to capture the sound in a certain way?

12-26-2014, 12:42 AM	#423 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	I still don't understand why, man. If it's an astounding body of auditory beauty on it's own, why is not music? Why is birdsong the one exception? Because it has song in the title? I mean, appreciating it, appreciating it as a musical medium, and liking it...are they they same thing? Windsong, telephonewiresong, speechsong, ambientnoisesong...are those music? Imagine if the tables were turned. You were the artist, not the listener. Someone says "fuck no man, it's not even music!" Would that discredit your stance as music even though incredibly intelligent, sexy, and inspiring people such as myself are like "well I mean I guess it's music, but it sucks Beelzebob's anus, for quite a long time." Obviously a ridiculous example (even if it reminds me of 4'33" ), but could still be theoretically applicable. But seriously, why should a listener be the one who decides whether something is music or not when they put no work into the piece? Sure, it might suck, but fuck, it's still some shite music to begin with. I don't go around saying a Kenny G solo saxophone album isn't music because nothing is happening, it doesn't interest me in the slightest, and makes absolute (and nonexistant) silence preferable (for a man who thrives on music), I'm still going to say that it's music. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

12-26-2014, 01:01 AM	#428 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	Or, more concisely (not in the Larehipian sense): what is music? Is there anything that isn't music? __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

12-26-2014, 12:56 AM	#426 (permalink)
Zhanteimi Mord Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Tokyo Posts: 4,874	Finding beauty in a sound is not what defines it as music. What's the OP? I just jumped in the middle.

12-26-2014, 01:07 AM	#430 (permalink)
DeadChannel Music Addict Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Canada Posts: 1,259	What if I manipulated the recording equipment to capture the sound in a certain way?