Genre Crisis - The Allman Brothers Dilemma / Southern Influence in Music
 

So apparently I'm having a bit of a genre crisis.
From the Blues Recommendations thread:
Over the last half a year or so I've really been sinking my teeth into southern styles of music, whether that means southern rock (The Allman Brothers, Skynyrd etc), desert rock & stoner metal (Kyuss, Soundgarden etc), alternative country (16 Horsepower, Wovenhand etc), delta blues (Skip James, Muddy Waters etc), and whatever else. It has really started leaking into my playing style and my songwriting and I'm hungry for more but I've been having a hell of a time finding the musical inspiration I'm really looking for.

The Allman Brother's music really seems to be the undisputed culmination of these genres (of course excluding the styles that came later, desert rock / stoner metal and so on). When all of the influence from each of these styles, delta blues, electric blues, country, bluegrass, folk, and early rock and roll seeped its way into the right group of musicians we ended up with absolutely colossal masterpieces like Jessica, Whipping Post, In Memory of Elizabeth Reed, and a landslide of other lengthy and complex multi-instrumental jams that have pretty much remained unparalleled for decades (as far as I know).

And now I'm all torn up over not being able to find more of this. There has to be similar groups out there that either directly influenced The Allman Brothers or were directly influenced by The Allman Brothers, groups that don't fall outside of that mixed fusion style. I've sifted through so much but it's always too blues or too country or too folk or too rock or too metal, The Allman Brothers seem to occupy this perfect sweet spot right in the middle of it all that nobody else has conquered.

TL;DR:
Basically I'm looking for ambitious and genuinely talented multi-instrumental music, preferably acoustic, that effectively incorporates elements from blues, country, and bluegrass, without evolving into pure rock and roll. Bands that experiment and push these styles together and forward, bands where every member and instrument is bringing something crucial to the table, no backup bands passively holding a solid 12-bar while a prodigy noodles above them (ex: Stevie Ray Vaughan).

I realize it's frowned upon to ask directly for recommendations outside of dedicated recommendation threads, but I've had no luck inside of them, it's hard to find fusions of genres in genre specific threads. I'm hoping this thread can become more than me begging for music and move more towards finding out how we ended up with incredible groups like The Allman Brothers and investigating Southern influence in the development of other more complex fusion genres. Perhaps the easiest way to get this going would be to start listing groups that were clearly born out of the fusion of country, blues, bluegrass, and rock.

Lisnaholic's favourite group is the Allman Brothers, and he basically runs the "Country, Folk, and World" section, so he might know of some similar bands. I'm afraid all I've got from the genre is CCR, and you're already a fan.

I think the closest example I've come across thus far is The Band.

They're very multi-instrumental, they're reasonably ambitious songwriters (although still quite poppy most of the time), every member of the group is immensely talented, they're not afraid to meander off into occasional jams or extended solos, and they very skillfully transcend genre boundaries while still comfortably wearing their influences on their sleeve.

I'd love to find a similar group that makes use of primarily acoustic instruments.

EDIT: I'm starting to think Americana might be the most useful term to focus on when searching for bands that fit the bill, but I'm also worried that the word Americana has been thrown around so much since the 70's that it'll be impossible to sift through.

Have you ever given Canned Heat a whirl?

Hey, thanks for the mention, Pet_Sounds ! Yes, the Allman Brothers are my favourite band, so I read the OP here with great interest.

In fact, Epoch6, I´ve been in just the same place that you seem to be in; over-familiar with all things Allman and looking for something new that equals their brilliant extended jamming. Unless you´re luckier than me though, you have to be ready for disappointment; I have certainly never found anyone who is as all-round good as the Allmans. I imagine that you´ve already checked out the Allman spin-off bands, such as Gov´t Mule and Derek Trucks, but perhaps some of these leads might interest you:-

East-West by Paul Buttersfield Blues Band (1966): unfortunately, afaik, they only recorded the one extended instrumental, but listening to it you might wonder if the Allmans didn´t use it as a model:-



Boz Scaggs self-titled album (1969): kind of southern/Americana featuring Duane Allman on one track. I dismissed this album years ago, but thanks to rostasi, I´ve grown to like it. No instrumental tracks though, I´m afraid.
Duane Allman also turns up on another 1969 album, Two Jews Blues by Barry Goldberg (on the track, Twice a Man). This album has the blues-focused failings that you mentioned with SRV though. More interesting perhaps is the material in the recently-issued Clapton package called Layla Sessions. Jams# 4 and #5 are about 18 mins long each; great instrumental workouts brought to life by Duane´s searing slide guitar.

Jumping rather abruptly from old albums to current performers, your post made me think of these two bands:-
String Cheese Incident can be, ironically, a bit cheesy, but sometimes they come close to what I suspect we are both looking for:-



And with Railroad Earth , Bluegrass turns into Newgrass. Occassionally their instrumentals interludes take flight, but never quite long enough or high enough, imo:-



I wonder if this is the kind of music you have in mind, Epoch6 ? If we can find some new artists between us I would be really happy !

Thanks a lot for jumping in on this Lisna.

That Butterfield Blues Band track was absolutely amazing and is a great example of the kind of stuff I'm trying to track down. Unfortunately the rest of the album seems pretty standard but still, that particular track demonstrates a huge part of what I'm looking for, ambitious multi-layered musicianship pulling influence from many southern styles. I think that's a great start to the thread for sure.

Funny you bring up these Duane Allman collaborations, I spent several hours today driving around listening to Duane Allman: An Anthology Vol. I & II hoping I'd come across something. If you haven't listened to these compilations yourself you must, as a full set it's basically 40 tracks of Duane Allman collaborating with other musicians. There are a few exceptional stand out tracks, for example his instrumental cover of The Band's The Weight with saxophone legend King Curtis, his cover of Steppenwolf's Born to Be Wild with Wilson Pickett, the massive instrumental Push Push with flute legend Herbie Mann, or the droning swampy track Goin' Upstairs with Sam Samudio. But all of that being said, besides being a great compilation for Duane Allman fans, there was nothing genuinely mindblowing to be heard.

That String Cheese Incident performance was cool, great musicianship all around, some nice interesting moments, but not quite the full package we're seeking. The vocals are obviously the weakest link, missing the passion we could easily find from other groups. Same deal with Railroad Earth. The thing about these bands is that they're obviously full of great musicians, the playing talent is undeniable, it's just the songwriting that is lacking, there's nothing genuinely compelling about it, no blood, no sweat, just a handful of really well trained musicians hammering out meandering solos with little to say.

But anyway I'm quite confident you understand what I'm looking for, East-West was a total win, I'll be holding onto that track for a long time. All of your other examples are on the right track, just not quite the full package. I'll keep you posted on anything I find, I'm hoping you do the same. This thread will be here for anything worth sharing.

^ Haha! Been there, done that, Epoch6! I also came to about the same conclusion too; decent music, but disappointing, unadventurous in terms of structure and length. I think the best thing the Duane anthologies led me to was some Delaney and Bonnie material; there is quite a decent jam on YouTube called Only You Know and I Know, which includes a great solo from King Curtis.
Yes, you´re right; East-West is exceptionally good, and it´s frustrating that they never explored that long instrumental format again. Of course The Grateful Dead were jam pioneers too. - I imagine you already know the legendary Dark Star, but here, anyway, is the most popular version of it. Nice guitar, while the best that can be said about the lyrics is that they don´t last long :-




^ Agree, agree, agree ! I didn´t want to be too harsh on some obviously dedicated musicians, but you have explained very neatly how they just don´t reach the same intensity that the Allmans could achieve on so many songs.

How about this?

Keep forgetting to come back to this thread.

That Grizzly Bear album was certainly interesting, very strange collision of so many styles, but too many to really fit the bill for what I'm looking for. That being said, it'll certainly remain in my library for future listening, I definitely enjoyed it regardless. It's much more ambitious than the sort of ambition I'm looking for. The incorporation of wooshy atmospheric sound design and cinematic synthscapes pushed that album far outside of the realm of rootsy organic southern music. I'm looking for ambition without the incorporation of purely electronic instruments, no synths, ambition to get the most out of traditional blues / country / bluegrass / rock instruments.

Over the last week the closest I've come to my target is The Doobie Brother's album Stampede.



While it's still The Doobie Brother's massive classic arena rock sound here, this album seems to draw far more influence from southern styles than some of their more funky / groovy work. Neal's Fandango is a massive country-rock epic and throughout the album are a handful of brilliant multi-acoustic textures.

As far as being "Southern" sounding, there are some bands around these days with that vibe, though I don't know of any offhand who fit the acoustic bill you're looking for.

White Denim is fairly close to a "Southern rock" band, though they do mix in a bit of psychedelia and other stuff. But they're definitely not acoustic.

Molly Hatchett

38 Special

Have you looked into some Tedeschi Trucks? Based on what you've posted, this has some of the elements you're looking for. A fantastic concert, and it has a bit of everything.

.38 Special, Molly Hatchet, The Doobie Brothers, ZZ Top, Lynyrd Skynyrd and so on are all fine recommendations that obviously do draw influence from southern styles, they are all bands that were born out of the fusion of genres I'm talking about, but they all sort of embody the dilemma I'm talking about too. All of these bands have moved forward into new styles that stemmed from the sweet spot that The Allman Brothers mastered, they've all moved into Arena Rock territory, the organic rootsy aspect has long been swamped in mountainous amplifier stacks and elaborate stage shows.

Derek Trucks' various side projects are all great too, the instrumental talent is phenomenal from almost every angle, the performances are very good, and the style is clearly within the realm of what I'm talking about, but the problem with Derek Trucks' projects to me is that they all seem like vestigial remains of what was The Allman Brothers. They all shoot for that standard of quality and get very close instrumentally, they can play as well and as precisely, they may be musicians of similar caliber, but the songwriting never seems to come close, it all kind of feels lifeless and in-genuine, bands trying to emulate a certain sound, mood, and atmosphere rather than living it.

But aside from my complaining, thanks for all the recs, it's all damn good music, just too far evolved from the roots jam band sort of style I'm looking for.

Shot in the dark.



Also: Second Coming, Spencer Davis and Don Gibson.

Some older...


The Flying Burrito Brothers-Six Days On The Road


New Riders of the Purple Sage 5/29/72 Complete Performance


Can't You See (1977) - Marshall Tucker Band

And some newer...


NORTH MISSISSIPPI ALLSTARS - Mississippi Bollweevil (Live at High Sierra 2013)


HILL COUNTRY REVUE acoustic "Hill Country Revue"


Don't Need You - The Mallett Brothers Band - From The Extended Play Sessions

That's all I could think of at the moment.

Well dam dude. You really have a precise thought about what you're looking for in this particular sound search. For a jam band approach, maybe try some Widespread Panic. They have some mostly blues/grass roots style stuff.

^ Yes, Plankton - between Epoch and the original Allmans, the bar is being set pretty high!
This guy isn´t a real contender, but his composition Lakota has a kind of leisurely High Falls vibe to it I think - and given that his video clip has only received 210 hits, I think Johnny Roth deserves at least some attention:-

I really don't think what I'm looking for is all that unlikely, and I think it's pretty simple to describe. Just take something passionate and genuine like that wicked Sonny Boy Williamson harmonica track that FRED HALE posted above and throw in a band of great musicians that aren't just passively holding a backing track together, give all of them room to perform (which is exactly what allows The Allman Brothers to soar above everything else). I think Lisna knows exactly what I mean, and again Lisna's recommendation is definitely on the right track, just underwhelming. All of the older tracks Psy-Fi posted were great too, excellent within their genre, but very standard in terms of songwriting, tons of skill but less ambition.

I don't want it to look like I'm being ungrateful towards the recommendations people are posting in this thread, these recommendations have already introduced me to a lot of great stuff I didn't know about before, I just want to milk the discussion for all it's worth. If we don't shoot for a certain standard of quality we're just tossing names around, this is about digging and trying to unearth something unique that sits above the rest. Blues and country, like all genres, are so heavily saturated with generic traditional bands, we have to be critical to find the real gems.

In the meantime, another example:



Something like this, but with more instruments, harmonicas, maybe a bit more complex percussion, and if miracles exist, a banjo.
There had to have been groups of musicians that heard stuff like this and went "Damn son, we need to beef this up, lets get a bunch of musicians doing it at the same time".

I think you should listen to Gram Parsons. He may not be exactly what you're looking for, but both his solo albums, especially Grievous Angel, are pretty much flawless, as is Live 1963.

Something like this with a fuller band and more instruments would be so good:



Imagine how killer this would be with even just a harmonica bouncing alongside the guitar.
But again, it's just a virtuoso being propped up by a backing band. We need bands with excellent musicians in every corner.

Maybe I'm completely off base here, but have you heard of David Grisman? Bluegrass meets gypsy jazz, incredible stuff.

Oh god yes, that's certainly more heavy on the bluegrass than the blues but that kind of jam band format is certainly what I'm looking for, everyone is on display there, I'm definitely going to be digging into those guys. Thanks.

I thought about posting these earlier but figured they might be too bluegrass for what you had asked for. In light of Quality Cucumber's post, I might as well go ahead now...


Mark O'Connor, Tony Rice, Bela Fleck - "Freeborn Man"


Bela Fleck, Sam Bush, Jerry Douglas, Mark O'Connor & Edgar Myer Live on the Lonesome Pine Special HQ


Sam Bush Band ~ Romp 2013 (Full Set)

David Grisman covers a really wide range of styles, so maybe it would help if I pointed you to his material closer to your interests. The album that this comes from is basically Latin jazz:

Neon Tetra


These are more blues/ragtime based:

Peach Pickin' Time in Georgia


Beat Biscuit Blues


I only discovered him recently, so I'm not too familiar with his discography yet. He did stuff with Jerry Garcia, but most of what I've heard of that union is straight bluegrass.

You like virtuosity, blues jamming, and multi-instrumentalists? Some of Gentle Giant's output fits the bill.

Give this song a little while to get going:

Peel The Paint


Working All Day


Experience



This is a band made up of members of Deep Purple and Iron Butterfly, so it's basically psychedelic blues rock, proto metal. Lots of riffs, lots of prodigious music-making. Maybe not roots enough. Lemme no, k?

Captain Beyond

Well, there´s some great music piling up in this thread - plenty of worthy material to investigate, even if some of it is drifting away from the Allman Brother´s sound.

Psy-Fi´s post of the Mark O´Connor/Bela Fleck version of Freeborn Man reminded me of The Outlaws, who do a great version of it too:-



Another staple of the Outlaw´s repertoire was a song they wrote themselves; a ten-minute track when it first appeared on their 1975 self-titled album, here they are giving Green Grass and High Tides the full Allman Brothers treatment, a 23-minute-long guitar jam which sounds like what ? Well, to me it sounds like the Allman Brothers on a night when their playing was a little rougher than usual:-

Have finally come across a good reason to update this thread.

The Beau Brummels - Bradley's Barn [1968]

Recorded shortly after a significant dissolution in personnel, Bradley's Barn was the product of the two remaining members of the Beau Brummels, lead vocalist Sal Valentino and composer-guitarist Ron Elliott, being encouraged by their producer to head to Nashville in a sort of back-to-the-roots trajectory, similar to many other acts at the time, after experimenting with psychedelic rock on their previous release, Triangle. The results were so incredible that they decided, in tribute, to name the album after the studio, Bradley's Barn.

This album is a very good example of the sound I'm looking for in this thread. The vision of the producer wasn't to equate country, bluesgrass, and southern styles with simplicity, but instead to craft a sort of complex country guitar orchestra, a huge enveloping sound built of cascading southern instrumentation, while remaining mindful of rock / pop sensibilities and producing something catchy and approachable. The results are fantastic, it has so much of what I'm looking for, and startlingly good production for 1968. There are no weak tracks on this album, it's a total gem.

Thick acoustic instrumental textures, expressive and dynamic vocal work, fantastic production, earthy and mindful of roots but often ambitious in vision, intelligent songwriting front to back.

If EPOCH ever checks this thread again I think I may have something here with these guys:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1iiGNgznu0

They have some longer jams too.

Probably be another epoch before he does... :D

It'll be an epic epoch.

The ABB borrowed very heavily from the Illinois Speed Press, as did Skynyrd. The Allman Joys opened for the ISP on a string of shows in early 1969 and brought the ISP album with them to Jacksonville in March. I got this info directly from Kal David of the ISP and Jeff Carlisi of .38 Special. Look up two songs by the ISP, “Hard Luck Story” and “PNS” and you’ll understand.